Back In The Saddle....Sorta...Several Questions

This Forum is Under Construction! By popular demand, it's the return of Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. Questions about playing the Don'ts, Lay Bets, and Laying Odds? You've come to the right place. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and MORE! Come on in.

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Back In The Saddle....Sorta...Several Questions

Post by HowieHops » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:48 am

Greetings all, been out of the game for quite a while,I was on the old board before Heavy moved. It is fun seeing some of the names I used to see and references to others that I used to read.

I am heading to Horseshoe Indiana Saturday ( if it's still called that, lol) to meet a former co-worker from Tennessee to get some play in. Gonna take a look at Heavy's Xploitation roulette depending on the table mins and will certainly try to get some dice in.

After reading the board for a couple of days I certainly see things have changed in a BIG way, I see table minimums spoken of that I would have never played before. Does anyone on the board here know what the mins have been for Horseshoe Indiana?

I have been reading to find a way to play craps different than the way I played in the past which was all right side in it's various permutations, to overall not much success. I have been reading about the "hybrid" type approach from the dark side like SIA's OHCM and it really appeals to me.

I want to try and develop a consistent style of this play where I can go back to the boats again on a fairly regular basis and bring home the green (I don't suppose anyone else wants to do that, lol).

After reading so many posts about laying bets, DC, DP, etc my simple brain gets a bit scattered, but any defining suggestions would be appreciated as I start by journey back to the dice table.

Again, so good to again see your posts!!


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Re: Back In The Saddle....Sorta...Several Questions

Post by heavy » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:10 pm

Well, you and I have spoken about this a bit by email but I'll toss in a few thoughts. Perhaps DarthNater will join in as well since he's the Lord of the Darkside here.

My favorite play for years has been one I picked up from John Patrick - basically betting one unit larger than table minimum on the DP followed by a table minimum DC. So if the table minimum is $15, you start out with a $20 Don't Pass. Personally, I don't hedge $20 bets but if you feel the need you could Lay $41 no Four or Ten, or $31 no Five or Nine as a hedge. Or simply bed a $5 Red. But those hedge bets get expensive and they only help you one roll in six so what the heck. I'll take a chance for $20. Once the DP is established it fully hedges the $15 DC against the seven. If the seven shows on the next toss you net $15. You do have exposure to the eleven so you could toss out a dollar Yo hedge, but again, I'll take my chances when the odds are 1 in 18. So let's say you have two numbers established - we'll call them the 5 and 8. Now we just wait and see what the shooter does. Say the 5 is the point and the 8 is the DC. And the $15 DC bet on the 8 gets knocked off. You can still make a profit by standing pat. If the shooter sevens out you'll make $5. Or you can try to recoup that $15 by laying sufficient odds on the 5 to win $15. The closet you can get to that is to Lay $24 odds to win $16. Close enough. But all of this could have been alleviated if you'd looked at that DC on the 8 and decided to Place it for $18 as a hedge. Then you'd have either made $6 or lost $3.

The other play is One Hit - Can't Miss, which we've talked about some. In a $25 game I'd play $25 on the Don't Pass Line and once the point was established I'd place the Six and Eight for $30 each. You COULD play $30 on the Don't Pass but that extra $5 intimidates a lot of people. Hell, just playing $25 scares some folks. You could also play $25 Place Bets on the Six and Eight. The Payoff would be $29, which is fine. You could press them both to $30 each on the first his and be in good shape. Let's say you did that. Then on the second hit on either I would press both numbers to $42 and get $11 change. If you get another it it will pay you $50 for $1 and since you're playing a grind, take everything down except the Don't Pass bet. Regardless of what the DP point is - I'd place the point for an amount equal to the DP bet. That way you're guaranteed a push or a win on that wager. Ta-dah!

Anyone else have any thoughts?

BTW, Howie. Welcome back.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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Re: Back In The Saddle....Sorta...Several Questions

Post by HowieHops » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:56 pm

Thanks Heavy, that gives me a better line of process on the setup. The $18 hedge on the 6/8 sounds pretty good and I like that DC bets pay even money instead of the cost of lay bet action. Also I like the place hedge staying up against the DP bet if it is a 6/8 as well.

Thanks it is good to be back on the boards, I realize how much I enjoy reading the different systems and betting structures. I have read nearly all the Dark Side posts since rejoining and got some great chuckles about references to things I remember reading on the old board. Dylan hasn't changed one bit, lol. I really laughed when I saw a post about Pittsburgh Johnny, I remember when I read those stories years back on MP's posts about him.

Is Irish posting under a different name on this board? I know a lot of the posts on Dark Side are older, but I see reference to him on some of them.

Is MP no longer a international man of mystery?? lol I think I saw him by name, back in my day many thought he was made up!! lol

As I said, good to be back!

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Re: Back In The Saddle....Sorta...Several Questions

Post by DarthNater » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:17 pm

My apologies for missing this thread earlier as I guess I was out of town when you posted.

Heavy’s one unit up DP is a fantastic play as well as the OHCM. Both are bread and butter Darkside plays.

I like a OHCM variant where let’s say the point is 5, then I place the six and eight and concurrently lay single odds on that DP. I’m still betting the shooter tosses a six or eight before the point, but now I have protected myself against the PSO or PPSO, as now it’s literally a No Hit Can’t Miss, but if it’s a bullfrog then I need two hits on the next shooter; yeah there are no absolutes.

There’s a couple more variants that we have been hitting in the seminars. As I also like a shorter leash version of MP’s classic Choppy Table Short Leash where you stop after the third level.

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Re: Back In The Saddle....Sorta...Several Questions

Post by HowieHops » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:43 pm

Thanks Nate for the input. I feel I have a couple of good strategies from the board here and what I garnered from Heavy in KC. It seems to me to keep it fairly simple and uncomplicated. Interesting that I had been thinking about a modified CTSL that you mentioned above, only going three steps deep.


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