laying odds on the 4 & 10

Queue the Imperial March. DarthNater is in the house. Welcome to Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. You can bet our resident expert, DarthNater, has answers. If he doesn't, there are plenty of other Dark Siders who normally stand quietly down at the end of the table who will be more than willing to chime in. Not sure about making Don't Come Bets? Unsure about Lay Bets, and Laying Odds? Never heard of the One Hit - Can't Miss? Wouldn't know a Hybrid Play from a Zee-Donk? You've come to the right place. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and MORE! Come on in.

Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater

Post Reply
advdel77
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:39 pm

laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by advdel77 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:54 pm

i have played where i only layed odds against the 4 & 10. i read on this forum that recovering from a shooter that picks off your 4 or 10 is too hard to recover from. is this why on daves system he does not lay odds against 4 & 10. i would appreciate some feed back on this thanks, advdel77

Golfer
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Golfer » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:21 pm

Step away from the lay on the 4 and 10. Your financial health depends on it.

Good Luck

advdel77
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by advdel77 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:28 pm

what about laying odds on 5,6,8,9. or just flat bet from the donts.advdel77

luxlogs

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by luxlogs » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:28 pm

I have lost more $ Laying the 4 n 10 than any other single bet. I did it a lot, and still do. It's not hard to recover from, just Parley your next winning outcome.
Hard 4 or 10 is hedging the hedge.

Make sure you have the bankroll as well if you go this way. Golfer know of what he speaks.

User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 10530
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by heavy » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:04 am

But to get back to your question - yes, that's why Dave's System does not include laying against the four or ten. Dave's opinion is that recovery from a bet that gets knocked off is just too tough. Me? I lay against every number I get established on. Sometimes I go down in flames. Sometimes I get the bases loaded and the seven scores a home run for me.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

VegasDiceController

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by VegasDiceController » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:36 am

Advel, do you chart the table in any way while there? Laying against the 4/10 could become very profitable if done right. Like any number its bc a bad lay once it gets picked off. Like H says, sometimes you get set up on 4-6 dc and wham the 7 appears and like he said, its a HR. Sometimes one gets picked right off as soon as it bc a DC, next roll repeater. Damn hate when that happens.

Personally when i go up on a Lay, Im going into a positive progression after. I am attacking that lay in clumps.

User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 10530
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by heavy » Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:33 pm

Years ago there was much talk on this forum about Dave's System - a systematic approach to playing the Don'ts used by a high roller named Dave in the Chicago area. Dave was, from all reports, so successful playing the Don'ts with his strategy that he was banned from playing at one Chicago casino - something that's basically unheard of at craps.

Dave's Systems had many elements. He had rules for the Four and Ten, for example. Any DP or DC that traveled to the 4 and 10 did not get odds. He only Layed odds on the Inside Numbers. He also had rules about how many times he would get knocked off of bets with odds, and if he hit that number he'd take down all remaining Lay bets and simply wait for a decision on his flat bets.

Several members played Dave's System with varying degrees of success. Personally, I liked parts of it and modified it slightly to fit my own bankroll tolerances. One other forum member wrote a WinCraps script for Dave's System and ran it through several million rolls but was never able to document any long run success with the strategy. Nevertheless, those who played with Dave swore by the systems effectiveness.

Which gets me to the question at hand today. If you're playing the Don'ts do you Lay Odds on the Four and Ten? Remember, you have to Lay $50 to win $25 on a $25 game. The Lay odds are 2 - 1. Most players don't like laying "more to win less." What do you think? Explain why and what you do if you get knocked off.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

Moe Bettor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Moe Bettor » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:47 pm

The idea of laying more to win less comes up from time to time and it's that old thing about how much money do you have on the table as a right
shooter to win what? If you have $120 inside to win $35 or $42..what's the freakin' diff? I only have $51 out there to win $25.
Like laying the 4 and 10 after they've been hit over 5 times on a short martingale leash if I get knocked off the first shot. And the lost four or ten after twelve rolls or so. I don't start going DP on shooters unless I get a cold table signal. I know, I know..the math says what it says, but I use it anyway. One knock down pulls me back for the next shooter.

User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 10530
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by heavy » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:10 pm

I agree, and use that example all the time when explaining the illogical argument of right side players about betting more to win less on the Don'ts. $22 inside to win $7? $44 inside to win $14? $66 inside to win $21? $110 inside to win $35? Laying one number on the Don'ts will pay you better.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

SHOOTITALL
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by SHOOTITALL » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:06 am

How about if the DC/DP travels to the four or ten, place or buy it. Break even win $20?
Your craps plan? The dice gods laughed.

Moe Bettor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Moe Bettor » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:40 am

You can actually make a DP and win both ways placing the number. At the lowest level..$15 dollar table. DP for $19. Any number will do. Come out 4?
Place the 4 for $15. Hit the four and you get $27 - $19= +$8. Seven out and you make $4. If have the cojones..expand that principal up into the hundreds. Make a DP for a ton..win a ton either way.

Parson
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Parson » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:05 pm

thnick wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:40 am You can actually make a DP and win both ways placing the number. At the lowest level..$15 dollar table. DP for $19. Any number will do. Come out 4?
Place the 4 for $15. Hit the four and you get $27 - $19= +$8. Seven out and you make $4. If have the cojones..expand that principal up into the hundreds. Make a DP for a ton..win a ton either way.
I think you need to make sure your place bets are working on the come out ...
If your gonna color up, there needs to be paint on the brush.

Moe Bettor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Moe Bettor » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:56 pm

Wouldn't do that. Seven kills you two ways if yr. coming out on the don't and you have PBs working. No?

Parson
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Parson » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:26 pm

thnick wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:56 pm Wouldn't do that. Seven kills you two ways if yr. coming out on the don't and you have PBs working. No?
Well if they are on the same number the seven wins one and the place bet wins one depending on whether you toss the seven or the number...

Your DC wins on the Comeout 7, loses if you rolling the point since the DC is always working ...???
If your gonna color up, there needs to be paint on the brush.

Tgold
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:23 am

Re: laying odds on the 4 & 10

Post by Tgold » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:20 pm

Any Lay is a good Lay.

One of my favorite wagering regimes is Laying a 6 or 8. I prefer a Pos Progression as frequently we see a shooter toss three hits on 6 and or 8s in a single hand.


Continued Success,
All the best,
Tgold

Post Reply