What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

The forum name says it all. You're new to the game of craps and don't have a clue where to begin. Pass Line. Don't Pass. Come. Don't Come. Hardways. Big Six. Big Eight. The Horn. Good Grief! Sounds like back when you were trying to make a decision about what to do in the back seat on that first car date. Well never fear! There are a few folks around here who have spent enough time at the tables to be able to answer just about any question you may have. So step right up and get a clue!

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gargoil
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:47 am

What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by gargoil » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:45 pm

I have taken several classes over the years with HEAVY and I wanted to give you my honest feedback of what my expectations were and what actually happened. Maybe some of you are thinking about it and this post may help clear a few things.

Before I took my first class, I had no clue what DI was all about and had a brief knowledge of the game. I came in with an open mind and I wanted to learn anything and everything that was offered. However I did have a huge notion that I will be able to walk up to a table after that and win lots of money. That's not from anything that the brochure said or from any conversations I had with HEAVY prior to the class but just my own notion. When I actually made it to my first class, I saw a mixed group of veterans and starters like me. However what transpired during the class confirmed to me I made a good choice by actually taking a class.

When the class starts, introductions are made and everyone talks briefly about their experiences with the game and what they would like to get out of the class. This is always a good way to get to know others from the forum that you have had conversations with but never actually met. It is also a good venue to pick up the long timers in the game from the "baby" :D

After the introductions, each student will receive a handbook and a CD. HEAVY will go thru the handbook explaining basic fundamental instructions about DI (Basic dice sets, Table position, Body position, Grip, etc.) This usually takes a couple of hours and there are always questions and answers going on during that period. Theses are all the basic foundations. What I was amazed at the first time I took the class was that both veterans and new comers were engaged in the conversations. No one went to the corner and started doing their own thing. Everyone was there as a team.

The next phase of the class is the Toss Improvement Plan. This is where all the students take turn tossing the dice while everyone watches (students and teachers). HEAVY will provide feedback on all aspects of the shooter (dice set, grip, body position, etc.) and helps each student with whatever he sees or what they ask for help. This is good because EVERYONE learns from the exercise. You don't have to wait your turn in order to pick up on something. You can watch and listen then adapt something to your own toss. Also HEAVY will not try and divert you to a different grip or toss unless absolutely necessary. What usually happens it that he will work with what you brought and try and make it better.
Also a worksheet is prepared for each student with remarks, observations and things to work on. This makes is a bit easy when you get home to look at and see what you need to work on. (I still have my first one and I shake my head every time I look at it :lol: ).

The final phase of the class is basic game information and betting strategies. Again this is all ground work information (odds, payout, etc.). The great thing about this exercise is that students chime in with how they play and bet and sometimes what someone is doing can be a good play for you to use. Also at the end of the class, HEAVY will work with the folks that have signed up for live sessions on what positions they need to take at the table and other information.

So this is what the class is at a very high level. As someone who has had many of them, please allow me to offer the following advice:

1- Come in with an open mind
2- Watch & Listen
3- Bring your glass empty or half full
4- Provide HONEST feedback to HEAVY (in private during the breaks in the class or in private after the class).
5- Take what you have learned and work at it. Success is measured by the amount of effort you put in.

I will have more posts on what my suggestions for you is AFTER you have taken a class and also my suggestions during live sessions.
==================================================
Practice doesn't make perfect.... Practice reduces the imperfection.
Practice doesn't make perfect.... It just makes you better.

gargoil
Posts: 701
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:47 am

Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by gargoil » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:54 pm

I had to look for it but this was my post AFTER my first class

Wow... What a weekend. Can I say that again? Wow.. What a weekend.

For those of you who do not know me, I am very new at this DI thing ( 3 months ) and a long time "dumb playing randie". I honestly thought this was going to be a another scheme to take away my money.

Well... I was right it is a scheme. Except it's a scheme to show you how you can keep your money and maybe make a bit more.


I arrived to LV around 1:00 PM their time and after a 5 hour flight I was ready for some action so I pulled up the email HEAVY sent us and the first thing it said "no play until you take the classes". Crap.
I take the walk of shame to several venues and rail bird to see the table bounces and dice movements just to stay busy. Low and behold at a certain venue a pattern was established on a table. 2-3 rolls then seven out. I know HEAVY said no playing before the classes but he won't know I broke the rule and I'm not going to tell him. Buy in for a small amount, play darkside for a short time then everybody started leaving. Okay color coming.

Meet and greet time came around so I went to our meeting place very cautiously to try and figure out who this bunch of people I have been chatting with on the Forum for about a month or so are. I get there very early on purpose so that I can scope them out. I mean the odds are in my favor. They don't know what I look like. I sit at the bar for 5 minutes and here comes dicecaoch talking about his website and other stuff to another person at the bar and I know he saw me. Okay I can sit here and ignore him until every one gets here then introduce myself in hopes he doesn't notice he has been sitting next to me for a while or I can just get it out of the way. I put my pass line bet and rolled. Hey coach this is gargoil. Luckily I hit a Yo and doubled up. He was extremely friendly and talked to me like he has known me for years. Slowly everyone trickled in and the entire group / coaches made me feel right at home. The evening let out and we all had to get a good night's rest because classes started early.

QUICK NOTE... If you are reading this and you HAVE NOT had a class with HEAVY but are planning to go play craps at a casino in the near future then let me save you some time and trip money. Take half of your bankroll and go flush it down the toilet and stay at home. I just saved you your other half.

CLASS DAY Saturday. I signed up for both sessions because I wanted to make sure I get as much as possible from the coaches. HEAVY, Dicecoach and Irish were awesome. I can write pages and pages on how they spent time individually with every person and helped them work on mechanics. Dicecoach told me I was going to go last so that I can listen and observe and learn from everybody first and then try to apply them to me as much as possible. The way the coaches were concentrating on the individual shooting was amazing. Irish concentrated on poise and grip, HEAVY on roll and axis and Dicecoach on follow thru. These guys were amazing. I can not say enough about them and when it was my turn to step up to the plate, Irish let me throw a few then the real work started. I think I worked him more than anybody else and I kind of felt bad about it but he really helped me understand what I was doing wrong. HEAVY and Dicecoach would step in every once and a while and confirm / give some input.

Lunch time came around so we sat around and chatted some more and I got to know folks some more. Great bunch of guys.

Afternoon class came with new faces. I think I was the only one signed up for both but the coaches went thru the same exact drill. No sign of them being bored or tired. Every person got the same grade coaching the morning class did. When my turn came ( yes last again ) I took what I was taught earlier and started throwing. I think I did better than the morning session. These guys gave me exactly what I needed to get started on this journey. By the time we were done, I was ready for bed. Not sure what everyone else did but I slept.

Sunday Live sessions - The live sessions were to start at 1.30 in the afternoon. I wanted to get some practice before I showed up for the live session so I took a quick walk to the quad and played a short hand very successfully. 1.30 came and we as a group were ready to hit the tables. We each took our spots and played craps. Things were going great until the dice came to me. All of a sudden this dark cloud came over and this fear of coaches and players looking at me and all I could say is "Lord don't make me F up". First roll too short. Box man yells "Sir both dice need to hit the back wall." Yes sir. Second roll better but still short. Boxman gives me the look of death. I heard HEAVY in the corner say out loud "These rolls look very suspicious" code for "Get the damn dice to the back wall". Threw a couple to the back wall then sevened out. Once the seven hit, I was okay. The dice came to me again and I threw like there was nobody at the table. Took what the coaches taught me and applied it to my throw and stopped worrying about who was at the table or if a seven was going to come. I think I had some descent rolls and a mini monster there somewhere I don't remember because I was concentrating on my training. Overall we had a good time.


Monday morning call. The call was early and I wanted to be there the entire time but I had a flight to catch so I only stayed at the table for a short while but I witnessed the rock and roll from Howard and the "Fuzzy bunny" from Irish. (you had to be there). Made some quick money and left knowing I made some great new friends. I just hope I left a nice enough impression on them that they would let me come back some day and enjoy their company.

Now go sign up for an upcoming class and have fun like I did.
==================================================
Practice doesn't make perfect.... Practice reduces the imperfection.
Practice doesn't make perfect.... It just makes you better.

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heavy
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Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by heavy » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:19 pm

Thanks for the kind words, Gargoil.

The seminars we do are "living" things in that they have evolved quite a lot over time. In the old days we spent the first couple of hours in the class room, watching the same slide show that's in the DVD, making sure everyone understood the basics, etc. But it always seemed like a poor use of dealer school time when what everyone really wanted was to get on the tables and start toss practice. So, over the years we did less and less classroom material and more and more hands-on training. These days I give some pre-work for students along the way and hope they take the time to do it before coming to class. Often that includes reviewing the DVD beforehand, because the basics we teach really haven't changed that much since we shot that video back in 2005.

In the last few years students have asked for more on alternate tosses and sets, more on betting strategies, and more games. So we've gradually added all of that and more. At the core, though, is dice control for casino craps. That's the one that "brung us," so that's the main one we're going to dance with.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

thnick
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Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by thnick » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:55 pm

Think of your call to play craps as a journey. A guy named Joseph Campbell wrote a book called The Hero with a thousand Faces. In it he describes the hero's journey. Hero is called to action. He/she is hesitant and so a mentor is enlisted to help. The mentor fights no battles, but gives the hero tools to use and instruction. The future combatant practices, uses the tools, gets totally knowledgeable. Finally the hero is ready..and hits the casino. This is a true battle. The odds are against the hero and he may go down. But then the tools and instruction are his/hers..and so the hero knows when to back down and fight another day..or take advantage of good fortune. It's all in the mentoring and the practice. Perhaps I've raised the heroic journey..or lowered it to absurdity..but it kind of applies. Craps is not Hamlet or Streetcar..but what the hell. It depends on what accomplishment means to you.

rothchild
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Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by rothchild » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:48 am

Yesterday I completed my tossing station to go along with the craps rig I picked up. I know some people don't like equating DI to sports, but it's the best I can do to explain my thoughts. It just reminds me too much of when I started taking golf seriously and paid for lessons.

What I learned over my first hour of practice:

Golf: I used to have a nasty slice in golf, but until I learned WHY I sliced the ball there wasn't a logical way to fix it.
Craps Translation: There is no sense tracking numbers if you don't know WHY they showed.

Golf: Putting well can shave a lot of strokes off your game even when you aren't hitting the ball well or changing your swing.
Craps Translation: I can work on part of my game to prepare for the future. Gripping the dice, getting a better feel for the toss distance, watching for // or \\ on the throw.

Golf: This game is damn hard!
Craps Translation: DI is damn hard!

Golf: The reason golf pros are so valuable is they can quickly identify key flaws that prohibit you from success and can teach you how to correct them. Stance, club grip, focusing on target, swinging on plane, follow through, etc.
Craps Translation: DI Instructors can identify key flaws that prohibit you from success and can teach you how to correct them. Stance, dice grip, focusing on landing spot, toss, follow through, etc.

Golf: If you are going to take the game serious, don't be a schmuck...pay for lessons (and not just one).
Craps Translation: see above.

Golf: June is beautiful golf weather in Vegas.
Craps Translation: June is beautiful craps weather in Vegas.

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heavy
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Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by heavy » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:14 am

Geat post. Spot on with the golf comparison.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

22Inside
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Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by 22Inside » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:50 am

I also hear that August is beautiful craps weather in Tunica!

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heavy
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Re: What to expect when you take a class with HEAVY

Post by heavy » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Since we're moving into a new year I thought I'd bump this thread since it answers a lot of "first timer" questions about the seminars we do. If anyone has any additional questions feel free to post them here and we'll do our best to answer.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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