consistent income???

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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gargoil
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Re: consistent income???

Post by gargoil » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:56 pm

Yea sorry to hear that Tabletop. I was happy for you knowing you finally found your rhythm with your underhand toss. I know "Craps burnout" is a killer and throwing the dice for the sake of throwing is a sure way to mess up your toss.

I cut down my daily practice routine to 3 hours a day and they are not back to back. I also have different segments.
Segment 1: 30 minutes throwing with the glued dice for on axis rhythm. Quick break then 30 minutes true casino session.
Segment 2: 30 minutes throwing regular dice into small bowl (3 inches in diameter) for spot accuracy. Quick break then 30 minutes true casino session.
Segment 3: 30 minutes trying things for the sake of trying followed by 30 minutes betting routine.

Notice on segment 3 I don't throw a true casino session.

As for being an Action Junkie, well that's what my stupid money is there for and when I feel the need I use it. And the only time I bet on random rollers is when I spot a certain pattern. Yes this requires a huge degree of discipline and that's why I came up with the idea of stupid money. It helps me keep the discipline under control.

Take a break, re-group and get back on the horse. You have an entire community here that is willing and able to help make sure you get what you need without the hassle of "Obamacare" :twisted:

Good luck and stay in touch.
==================================================
Practice doesn't make perfect.... Practice reduces the imperfection.
Practice doesn't make perfect.... It just makes you better.

wild child
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Re: consistent income???

Post by wild child » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:55 pm

.
In a craps hand ANYTHING CAN / MAY HAPPEN
.
That said:
On a table with some mix of R R and or short roll/hand D I's....When ya are ate up with
the jonesees to gamble....
.
Try this...
.
a)Place WAGER $44 inside.. THEN ..Make TWO (2) D/C wagers of $5/ea {take down winning PLACE WAGER when paid}

b) After having the second D/C wager go behind a number

c) TAKE DOWN REMAINING PLACE WAGER$ ( with good fortune you just collected up to 2 wagers)

d) Leave the D/C action naked ( ZERO LAY ODDS )
..
Stand around doing nothing other than marking time
.....
Just for grins....you could WAR GAME... several hypothetical events just to prepare for
what actually occurs in real world ...and the results may vary from stupendous
to just plain ugly......You could accidentally walk off with newly won bonus bucks or you
may witness loosing $52 while witness to some mega bazaar hand.........
..
One way to not risk your $$$$ would be to mind game play the What if I had actually wagered that wager :?:
.
Something to do while waiting out the chaos we luv ........

Just me saying

W C

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Americraps
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Americraps » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:40 pm

I like that strategy, Wild Child. I wonder, has anyone used Wincraps on it?
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

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heavy
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Re: consistent income???

Post by heavy » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:40 pm

Ah, the age-old question. Is is possible to make a consistent income and be a professional craps player? Interesting answers above.

1. Give up your current lifestyle (home, wife, family, pets, belongings)
2. Salt away a couple of million in bankroll and retirement savings to get you through the draw downs
3. Become a master dice controller and bet only on yourself under optimal conditions
4. Exercise rock-ribbed discipline when things aren't going your way
5. Be willing to walk away with a win every time - any win - at any time - rather than turning a win into a loss

I could add a dozen more but I want to leave some for you guys to add to the discussion.

What does it take to be a full time professional craps player - or is it even possible in your opinion?
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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Raider
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Raider » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:19 am

How much money do you have to win to be considered a professional? Or would the win rate be a better way to measure?
Physics Trumps Probability

jaime_1943
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Re: consistent income???

Post by jaime_1943 » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:56 am

If you are paying the bills at home,year after year after year...with your winnings at the casino, then you are a PRO.

Raider, those are my 99 cents on this subject.

luck at the casino.

jaime 1943.

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Raider
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Raider » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:40 am

Fair enough Jamie. Then it all comes down to net worth and bankroll. I think that to be a pro, you would first need a secured income that pays your living expenses and a bankroll equal to your living expenses. Unless that requirement is met, your not a pro. Unless you win your living expense, your not a pro. Living expenses of 48K, bankroll of 48K, So you have to go in to the casino 365 days a year, win $738.46.
JP had a low win goal, IRC 10% of buy in. Rule of ten is 10x bet spread is buy in, 10x buy in is bankroll.
buy in everyday for 8k, win your 10% (or more so you can take a day off) and walk.

I think if your win is >10% of your buy in, and you win >60% of the time your in the pro zone. >70% your there.

Hell, as a pro craps player, you never have to touch the dice, its easy. If you have the money. In this country all you have to do to be a pro is cash the check, its not about conduct or skill.


Other than bankroll and win rate, you need a market. I don't know if I would try to be a pro in a one house town.
Physics Trumps Probability

Moe Bettor
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Moe Bettor » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:54 am

IMO an inconsistent income is reality. Drawdowns obviate the consistent income idea, no? Anyway by everything said so far playing craps for income is a lot of stress and a lot of work. $5 Bill has the right idea in that he goes, makes a quick hit, leaves. But he's doing it for extra money which sometimes doesn't come. And then there's aging. As one gets older, less stamina, body changes. And Raider makes a good point about needing a market. You'd have to be living in a casino center or keep traveling.

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DarthNater
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Re: consistent income???

Post by DarthNater » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:18 am

Raider wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:40 am
Fair enough Jamie. Then it all comes down to net worth and bankroll. I think that to be a pro, you would first need a secured income that pays your living expenses and a bankroll equal to your living expenses. Unless that requirement is met, your not a pro. Unless you win your living expense, your not a pro. Living expenses of 48K, bankroll of 48K, So you have to go in to the casino 365 days a year, win $738.46.
JP had a low win goal, IRC 10% of buy in. Rule of ten is 10x bet spread is buy in, 10x buy in is bankroll.
buy in everyday for 8k, win your 10% (or more so you can take a day off) and walk.

I think if your win is >10% of your buy in, and you win >60% of the time your in the pro zone. >70% your there.

Hell, as a pro craps player, you never have to touch the dice, its easy. If you have the money. In this country all you have to do to be a pro is cash the check, its not about conduct or skill.

Other than bankroll and win rate, you need a market. I don't know if I would try to be a pro in a one house town.
Hmmm, with my left brain looking at those ratios, I think it’s not enough, while my right brain says I don’t want to go to the casinos 30 days per month, so mixing both brains together let’s say 2 out of every three days you’re buying in somewhere for more, say $10k and win $2000 60% of the time (12 days) and those other eight days are losers between -$1 and -$2000, or -$4000 per month which all seems conservative the more I think about it. So that’s a $20k per month gain which sounds very good; or $16k per month if we count those eight days of losing at max -$2000 that day.

I guess that’s possible, but is it sustainable for a year? Multiple years? Maybe.... though I’d stash some for a rainy day or when they close the casinos for the next disaster. Then there’s the casinos - are they going to tolerate your regular withdrawals or are you going to travel around to multiple cities and venues? I guess you can and I suspect with those numbers that there might be a few players on that adventure

Sounds like fun, I wish them well, DN8R
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

House of Orange
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Re: consistent income???

Post by House of Orange » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:42 am

I was thinking two trips per month or every two weeks. Five night stay, check in Sunday, leave Friday. One trip to Vegas every 4 weeks, other trip to multi casinos locations.

LetsPlayCraps
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Re: consistent income???

Post by LetsPlayCraps » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:54 am

I am purely a recreational gambler.
Don't have the time to put in the amount of practice to become a pro nor have access to enough casinos without traveling to/from being a significant expense.
With that said, I enjoy the game of Craps and practice when time permits.
Last visit to Vegas I saved my money for the last night due to high table limits but still put in a couple of sessions.
Never played at these limits before and actually had an awesome time even though I was down overall.
From the recreational gambler perspective it was well worth it me. Truly an awesome Vegas experience.
If I were a Professional Craps player, the perspective would not have been nearly as positive or enjoyable.
Not sure I am willing to give that up.
Recreational Craps player for life!!!!!!

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Raider
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Raider » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:09 pm

D8NR, if you only go once a week, win 2k (or more) for 31 weeks, that's only 62K, so you would not be a pro if your living expenses were 100k and earning you living expense is the standard.

HoA

Attack Plan Alpha
I leave my apt at noon, arrive at the airport by 1pm
at 3pm EDT, flight 205 leaves for a nonstop flight to vegas.
Lands at 3:57pm PDT LAS
in casino by 5pm, buy in at my shoot postions(X factor) for 5k $100min (should not raise an eye in any casino in Las vegas).

$200 base bet on on others until I get the dice. No second bets, hand must pay for itself.

I get the dice.

pt is 5
$3200 across(includes $500 odds on five) 3300 at risk
6 hits press, 6 and 8 to 900, 3200 at risk
4 hits, press 4 and 10 to 1k, 3200 at risk
9 hits, drop 50, press 9 and five to 900, 3200 at risk
6 hits, collect 1050, 2150 at risk
9 hits,collect 1350, 800 at risk move to phase to of attack plan alpha
regress all bets to min, rack 4960, 2400 over buy in
100 come bet, use place bet and winnings as odds,
a1= seven out, color up and go home
a2= no other bets until come bet wins, collect and same bet all others until come bet wins
come bet wins, make two come bets, one hits got to three come bets, no more
seven out at some point.
get in cab by 8 pm go back to air port
flight 306 leaves at 11pm PDT non stop
arrive home by 6am EDT
back in apt my 730 am.

a1= 2400-500(airfare and cab) net 1900/20hr = $95 per hour
a2, ride out the hand and find out.


great plan, but no plan survives first contact with the enemy. How much did I win or lose until I got the dice? Do I seven out before I hit phase two? I did not factor in the vig

oh, three losses in a row, call it a year.
Rule of 10 bankroll, $50K
suicidal bankroll, $16500

1st year once a month
2nd year ever two weeks
3rd year once a week.

If or when I think I am good enough. Until then work the plan at my home house at smaller levels

If I thought about going pro, that's how I would do it, one hand and WALK AWAY. I think those last two words are key, that and not going to the casino, any casino too often, which for me is more than once a week, and since the standard is going to a casino every day is the standard, guess I will never be a pro.
Physics Trumps Probability

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skasower
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Re: consistent income???

Post by skasower » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:29 pm

Raider, with great You Tube marketing and a personality that people naturally believe, you can develop this model and sell it to the rubes. Enough sales on your get rich story (throw in your secret, can't lose DI insight, "toss inside numbers 99% of the time") and this plan may make you some easy income with little downside risk.

Of course, the only risk would be running into one of those "students" who bought your "Platinum" package for $1,000 and then lost his or her derrière on the 6-month Platinum Plan to Riches.

The You Tube is full of these folks and I am not sure who pays them for their secrets but some of them have got to be making money with their BS.

This could work as long as you do not believe that "what goes around comes around." Keep us posted on your progress!
Profe$$or Ka$hFi$h

House of Orange
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Re: consistent income???

Post by House of Orange » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:07 pm

There was a great book written about the power of one thing. Best Seller. Apply the principle to craps.

Problem is you need a SRR of 12 for most of these plans, so as to make this a consistent income producer.

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Raider
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Raider » Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:03 am

The key is not to hang out at the table and play craps. Get the dice, put all the risk out there, shoot one hand and win or lose, walk! That is the limit of my discipline. it worked last season, it will work again. any level of skill without discipline is worthless.

The dice and the table don't give a damn about your SRR. Its a plan, whats yours?
Physics Trumps Probability

House of Orange
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Re: consistent income???

Post by House of Orange » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:02 am

So if you can actually improve your skill to 50% win rate, at one decision per casino, at the end of the year, you are at $0 profit.

Moe Bettor
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Re: consistent income???

Post by Moe Bettor » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:08 am

All that meat and no potatoes.

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heavy
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Re: consistent income???

Post by heavy » Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:45 pm

You know, you guys are blowing a lot of steam up each other's asses with these big numbers and it's all bullshit. Here's the question I'll pose to you. And we'll switch games just for shits and giggles. Let's play $10 Blackjack. What the hell. We'll even play a auto-shuffle game. Typical Vegas rules, but we'll go ahead and play 3-2 blackjack payoffs. My question to you is this. Could you play this $10 game for 2 hours and, at some point, get ahead $50 pretty much every time you play it. I think most of us would say yes. Just the natural ebb and flow of the variance of the game is going to make that happen. So let's set that $50 as your win goal per session and we'll set . . . oh, let's say a $250 loss limit. I don't have the math of this sorted out - I'm just speaking hypothetically, but I suspect you'll hit the $50 win MANY more times than you'll hit the $250 loss limit. Will it be five times as many? I don't know but I suspect it will.

Years ago there was a guy who haunted the BJ21 boards who lived in LA and flew to Vegas EVERY NIGHT after he got off work on a cheapy (I think it was $49 round trip) Southwest airlines flight so he could play Blackjack for up to six hours. Then he'd fly home. He was a black chip bettor and his goal was to win $500 - which is no different than winning that $50 I just mentioned. He just made $100 bets instead of $10 bets. He only had to win five units. Once he won $500 he colored up and left the casino immediately. And according to him he was doing it consistently. Now, this guy was a card counter playing in the high limit parlors, this WAS some guy posting on the Internet so who knows how much of it was true, but it still underscores my point, which is that you're only looking for a five unit variance in this case. And $500 a day - minus $50 for airfare - nets you $450 a day. Play 300 days a year and you have a tidy sum there for what could range from 1 - 6 hours of play a day.

Now back to craps. If you want consistent income I suspect you need to think about focusing in on a single aspect of the game. Spreading across all of the numbers is not a single aspect. Instead of playing something like $6400 across you'd be in a much stronger position with $6400 on the Don'ts. Ooooh. That scares some people. But the odds are in your favor once that bet is established.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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skasower
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Re: consistent income???

Post by skasower » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:31 pm

Day 1 (bad day, headache) loss limit happens, you leave casino
Day 2 (feeling good but opps) loss limit happens, you leave casino
Day 3 (feeling so-so, but you make your $500 goal. Now you are even after three days
Day 4 (wife is irritated and you still came to casino) four hours of play and you are even....lucky you!
Day 5 (you brought the wife) loss limit happens and wife losses $500

There is your workweek and you are down $500. Here is your plan: either don't bring the wife (not advisable but possible) and work the plan again (another break even week? Or, a loss week? Or perhaps you actually make some money....$1,000. Hurray, two weeks of play and you made $1,000 turned something fun into drudgery and pissed off your wife. This is a "get rich" strategy? I suggest you make better income with the old retired gig:

"Welcome to Walmart!"
Profe$$or Ka$hFi$h

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