Betting Strategies for the Four and Ten

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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Betting Strategies for the Four and Ten

Post by heavy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:05 pm

I thought I'd throw out Betting Strategies for the Four and Ten next, since that's typically where I go to next in my personal play. I like to start out with the Six and Eight on pretty much everyone who touches the dice in one fashion or another. If I'm shooting or another DI has the dice who I know tosses Fours and Tens I'll bet Even Numbers. I like Fours and Tens because if we're playing in a casino that takes the commission on the win instead of up front and you can push them up to $30 on the breakage then you get the house edge down in the same range as the Six and Eight, making it an extremely good bet. Also, since the Four and Ten pay 2 - 1 when you Buy them it makes them extremely easy to press since either one is essentially "paid for" with a full press on the first hit. By that I mean a $25 Buy on the Ten can bet pressed to $50 for a $1 commission and you'll have a $50 bet with net $24 change. You only have $1 at risk to win $100 on the next Ten - in my mind the best bet on the layout at that point.

On myself or a good shooter (DI) in a $25 game I'll start with $110 Even Numbers. The Six and Eight will be pressed similarly to what I outlined in my Six and Eight progression. However, on the first hit on either the Six or Eight I'll press BOTH numbers to $42 each and get $11 change. On a second hit on either one I'll collect $50 for $1 and regress BACK to $30 each and lock up $73. That gives me a $13 profit on my inside numbers. I repeat that process a second time if I have not locked up at least a $50 profit on my Four and Ten by the time I've gotten two hits on the Six or Eight again. If I HAVE gotten $50 profit from the Four and Ten then I run my normal every other hit pressure on the Six and eight - 42 - 90 - 180 - 420 - 900 - 1800 - 4200 - table max. Here's the Normal Press Schedule on the Four and Ten.

Pressing the Four and Ten INDIVIDUALLY as they hit at the $25 Level (not showing the vig):

$25 Bet - First Hit - Press to $50 - Lock up $25
$50 Bet - Second Hit - Press to $100 - Lock up $50
$100 Bet - Third Hit - Press to $250 - Lock up $50
$250 Bet - Fourth Hit - Press to $500 - Lock up $250
$500 Bet - Fifth Hit - Press to $1000 - Lock up $500
NOTE THAT WHEN YOU REACH THE $1000 BET LEVEL YOU HAVE LOCKED UP $875 LESS VIG. RELAX!
$1000 Bet - Sixth Hit - Press to $2500 - Lock up $500
$2500 Bet - Sixth Hit - Press to $5000 - Lock up $2500
YOU NOW HAVE A $5000 BUY BET AND $3875 LOCKED UP LESS VIG. IF YOU GET A CASE OF GNAT BALLS YOU CAN TAKE DOWN THE $5000 AND GUARANTEE YOURSELF AN $8875 WIN - OR WAIT AND TAKE A SHOT AT A HIT AT $10,000, TURNING IT INTO A $13,875 WIN.

Option Two: Power Pressing ONE Number and Taking Down the Sister. In this strategy you take down the sister of the number that hits first and use that $25 as additional funds to Power Press the First Hit on the winning number. You do not lock up any winnings on the first THREE hits. Instead, you press ALL winnings. Here is the play:

$25 Each on the Four and Ten
First hit on the Ten pays $50 - Take down the $25 Four and add that to the $50 Winnings and Power Press the Ten to $100
Second Bet is $100 on the Ten - Next hit on the Ten pays $200 - Press the Ten to $300
Third Bet on the Ten is $300 - Third Hit pays $600 - Press the Ten to $900.
Fourth Bet on the Ten is $900 - Fourth hit pays $1800. Press the Ten to $1800 - Lock up $900
Fifth Bet on the Ten is $1800 - Fifth hit pays $3600 - Press the Ten to $3600 - Lock up $1800
Sixth Bet on the Ten is $3600 - Sixth hit pays $7200 - Press the Ten to $5000 (table max) - Lock up $4800
It takes you one less hit to get to table max with this play, and on the Fourth hit you have $900 locked up. On the fourth hit of the previous play you only had $375 locked up. If you are confident your shooter can hit four Tens (in this case) then this is clearly a more powerful play. It's even more powerful if you collect on the third play. But to be fully effective you need to let it ride on out to the sixth level.

Most DI's have dominant numbers either in the "uptown" neighborhood of the dice or the "downtown neighborhood of the dice, depending on what set they use. You can prove this on yourself with BoneTracker and the Coaster charts doing a deep dive analysis into the alternate sets that give high returns on specific numbers with your best SRR. A set that gives you a high percentage of Tens, for example, will rarely give you a high percentage of Fours as well. But occasionally you'll run across a shooter who has a set that gives him above average results in both the Four and Ten. In those cases you might want to look at pressing the Fours and Tens in Pairs. Since the Four and Ten pay 2 for 1 this is easy to do. Here's an example:

$25 each on the Four and Ten
First hit on either pays $50 for $1. Take the $50 and press each by $25 to $50 each.
Second Bet - $50 each on the Four and Ten. Second hit pays $100. Press each by $25 and lock up $50.
Third Bet - $75 each on the Four and Ten. Third hit pays $150. Press the Four and Ten $50 each and lock up $50.
Fourth Bet - $125 each on the Four and Ten. Fourth hit pays $250. Press the Four and Ten $100 each and lock up $50.
Fifth bet - $225 each on the Four and Ten. Fifth hit pays $450. Press the Four and Ten $125 each and lock up $200.
Sixth bet - $350 each on the Four and Ten. Sixth hit pays $700. Press the Four and Ten $150 each and lock up $400.
Seventh bet - $500 on the Four and Ten. Seventh hit pays $1000. Lock it up.

As you can see, there was very little profit taking on the front end of this progression. But both bets were paid for on the second hit, and on the third hit the bettor has a profit in the rack. By the fifth hit the profit is around $300, and it reaches around $700 on the next hit. But it takes seven hits to get a $1000 payoff and those are extremely rare. This is why I favor single number progressions instead of pressing in pairs on the Four and Ten. If you have a better Four and Ten progression I'd be interested in seeing it.

So there you go. My Four and Ten progressions starting at the $25 level. If you wanted to run them backing down to the $15 level it's easy. The first bet is $15. The first hit pays $27 and you Buy the number that hit for $25 and get $16 or $17 change, depending on whether they collect the commission up front or after the win. From there, the strategies will run just like those above - you'll just be one step behind.

Let's hear yours, guys and gals. Four and Ten progressions.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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Re: Betting Strategies for the Four and Ten

Post by 220Inside » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:11 am

My 4 and 10 progression is similar to Heavy's, but we start to deviate after the hit at $100. Must be those gnat balls Heavy was mentioning

I'm basically doubling up on every hit up to $800 before altering.

First hit $25 to $50
Second hit $50 to $100
Third hit $100 to $200
Fourth hit $200 to $400
Fifth hit $400 to $800
Sixth hit $800 to $1500
Seventh hit $1500 to $2500
Eighth hit $2500 to $5000

Takes one more hit to get to table max than his Heaviness. We'll often be jabbing at each other as we press up our 4/10 bets.

I've also experimented a bit wargaming a full press on the first hit on a $15 table

First hit $15 to $40 (no change, it's a full press and the up front vig is paid for as well)
Second hit $40 to $100, lock up $15
Then it's the same progression as above from $100

Same number of hits to get to table max from $25. After the second hit, I've got $0 at risk to win $100.

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Re: Betting Strategies for the Four and Ten

Post by r_ventura_23 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:01 pm

I double up after each hit. At a $10 table I will go right to $25.

Sometimes I chicken out when I hit at $200, and I only go to $250.

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Re: Betting Strategies for the Four and Ten

Post by heavy » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:24 am

Sometimes I chicken out when I hit at $200, and I only go to $250.
I used to be right there with you. That's why I started bypassing $200 and going directly from $100 to $250. Then it's easy to go from $250 to $500 because that yellow chip is dangling out there as a target just one more hit away.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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