Laying the Back Wall

This Forum is Under Construction! By popular demand, it's the return of Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. Questions about playing the Don'ts, Lay Bets, and Laying Odds? You've come to the right place. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and MORE! Come on in.

Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater

Post Reply
User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 12099
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Laying the Back Wall

Post by heavy » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:00 pm

On a recent YouTube video posted by the Casino Quest people in Vegas, local Texas player Troy (last name deleted) scored the second highest win in their 20 roll competition with a combination of Laying the Back Wall on the Come Out and sharpshooting point numbers once a point was established. The thing that dazzled the dealers at Casino Quest was the Lay the Back Wall strategy.

The way I learned that strategy was to lay $41 against the 4 and 10, $31 against the 5 and 9, and $25 against the 6 and 8. Total Lay bet was $194 across. Toss a 7 on the Come Out and you win $120 minus the $6 vig or a net $114. Troy's approach was to lay $30 against each number (Casino Quest did not take the vig up front) for a total $180 bet. If he tossed a 7 on the Come Out he would win $116. In this case, clearly the $30 lay on all of the numbers was a better bet. The shooter had $14 less action total for a potential $2 more net win. I say potential, because the numbers have to roll your way.

Either way, this is a pretty cool strategy in that the MOST you can lost if you don't toss a Seven is one bet. So you're risking, at most, $41 to win $114 - $116 total. And you have 6 ways to win versus 3, 4, or 5 ways to lose on any given number. Those aren't bad odds. Add to that the fact that if you DO knock yourself off one bet - you can always take sufficient odds on the pass line once the point is established that you'll MAKE the point that you'll offset any initial setback and score a larger win by making your pass.

You also have additional opportunities to score offsetting wins by placing other numbers, scoring hits on them, and locking up those profits, regressing those bets as you go.

Overall, I think it's a decent play. What are your thoughts?
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

User avatar
Big O
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:11 pm

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by Big O » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:09 pm

It takes a little guts but after a big payout like the ATS i think its a good play. Even better if a full ATS has been hit , then the point is hit lay everything on the new comeout roll. I might even leave it if a new point was set and take a chance on a PSO. I have laid one number in this situation but not the wall yet.
"if it was easy anyone could do it"

chuckindice
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:33 pm

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by chuckindice » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:57 am

Big O wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:09 pm It takes a little guts but after a big payout like the ATS i think its a good play. Even better if a full ATS has been hit , then the point is hit lay everything on the new comeout roll. I might even leave it if a new point was set and take a chance on a PSO. I have laid one number in this situation but not the wall yet.
Great idea! I have used the "Lay the Back Wall," but only on the initial Come Out. But it's an interesting idea to also throw it out there after an ATS. It's anecdotal, of course, but I know we've all seen the ATS hit (one side or the All) and after all the payouts are finished, the next roll is a 7.

In terms of risk/reward, it always made sense to risk $31 ($1 vig) to win $120 on the most-likely number to roll. But especially in situations where the 7 seems to show up even more frequently. And if you lose the $31, you still have the chance to get it back if the roll continues.

- Chris

User avatar
DarthNater
Posts: 2070
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:01 pm
Location: Vegas, Baby!

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by DarthNater » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:14 am

I saw that CQ video with Troy hammering that challenge. It is one of the best examples I've seen on Laying the Back Wall.

I like it and it got me thinking about my Darth Crapless No Four Strategy. Yep - laying the backwall might be less risk than that $120 no four!

My first wargame iteration was Lay the six box numbers for $30 each, then work on the comeout a $40 2,3,11,12; then use the horn set.
That was ok, except both my 2 & 12 rich sets tend to make sixes and eights when they miss the horn (secondary results). So I tweaked it and left off the 6 & 8 lays. Currently, I'm messing with it at Laying the 4,5,9, and 10 @ $60, while working the 2 & 12 at $30, and the 3 & 11 at $35. That might be too complicated for the dealers, though they seemed to catch on to the No Four play pretty well.

Anyway, if the horn hits on the comeout - that's great, but if I get a six or an 8, then let it all ride seems to be the play.

What do you think? What's your play?

DN8R
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

Parson
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by Parson » Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:48 pm

Nate, honestly i could not disagree more, with all due respect. My mind set is my mindset. Laying the back wall, no problem…. But dont increase to sixty if your leaving out the 6&8…. The way i see it hedging bets gets you no where. Personally I am opposed to broad hedges. Again my mindset. Either throw the fricken numbers or throw the seven …. DIs gets asked that stupid question all the time, why not lay the back wall and throw a seven? I dont see many opportunities, actually zero opportunities to lay on crapless here. Yes we tried it at the Strat in vegas, but it didnt accomplish much with the lay four. Set your dice for your objective, and toss them is my opinion. If seven is the objective, then lay them all. If 3 is the objective, toss it. Win or lose, give it the best sjot you have… hedging in my opinion is losing not to win.
If your gonna color up, there needs to be paint on the brush.

User avatar
DarthNater
Posts: 2070
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:01 pm
Location: Vegas, Baby!

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by DarthNater » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:22 pm

Yeah, you make a good point, as its probably coloring too far outside the lines. It's a lot of volatility and since the Grenada trip, I'm volatility adverse as I get the toss reset and primed for Biloxi, DN8R
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

grinder2017
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:34 am

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by grinder2017 » Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:32 pm

hedging in my opinion is losing not to win.
[/quote] Parson I agree if you need to hedge you don't have a large enough bankroll in my humble opinion.
Cheers
Grinder

r_ventura_23
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:11 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: Laying the Back Wall

Post by r_ventura_23 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:18 pm

I like this on the come out roll. Think of all the times there were 2 3 4 7s before a point was established.

Post Reply