Baccarat

[relus]

EZ Baccarat actually has a lower edge than traditional baccarat.

EZ: 1.02% http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/ ... ezbaccarat
Traditional: 1.06% http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/

The trade-off is that in exchange for not paying commission, a 3-card banker win with a total of 7 is a push instead of a win

Wudged

Thanx for the info. Why in the world would the Casino make Bacc "Better" for the Masses?
Bones

They didn't. It only appears that way.

[Bones]

It's much easier for dealers to pay even money than to have to figure out commission. I'm not sure how it works in Biloxi, but in AC they like to add up all the commission and keep track of it for each player over the course of a shoe. This adds more calculation problems, plus it creates another issue because a lot of the players either don't (or pretend not to) speak English, and will leave the table without paying up. However, when I played in Vegas the commission was taken out of every hand which eliminates this secondary problem.

Semi-related - I've also read reports of casinos offering both games, and with dealers rotating in and out of both, sometimes they forget to take commission on the traditional game and sometimes will pay a pushed banker bet on the "dragon" hand at the EZ game.

It makes sense, there was a dispute over 25cents commission. Created some minor havoc but dealer just gave in saying perhaps he made an error. Yes , they keep track of the commissions same as in AC.

At several casinos in Biloxi they deal "free" hands which imo is fantastic. Most everyone is playing a system and there are times when nobody bets, it's great to just deal a hand and keep the game moving along.

Maybe ez bacc will make its way down south

[Bones]

The side bets are what the casino makes money on which more than makes up for the 5% banker commission. Posted here are the payout rules for the side bets. When I am playing, everyone except me is putting an average of 5.00/10.00 and up on these ridiculously bad bets.


http://www.hollywoodindiana.com/Casino/ ... 20Baccarat

Lyle Stuart's book is the best on Baccarat. Follow the trend and don't bet every hand! Patience will serve one well in the long run! I don't treat this as a short term game.

http://www.amazon.com/Lyle-Stuart-Bacca ... 599&sr=1-4

Absolutely agree about the side bets, it is always tempting when u see someone hits the Dragon bet with a couple of green chips there but in the long run , ouch. I read somewhere that instead of making the Tie bet go ahead and just bet somebody that the Sun is going to explode.

[relus]

The side bets are what the casino makes money on which more than makes up for the 5% banker commission. Posted here are the payout rules for the side bets. When I am playing, everyone except me is putting an average of 5.00/10.00 and up on these ridiculously bad bets.


http://www.hollywoodindiana.com/Casino/ ... 20Baccarat

Lyle Stuart's book is the best on Baccarat. Follow the trend and don't bet every hand! Patience will serve one well in the long run! I don't treat this as a short term game.

http://www.amazon.com/Lyle-Stuart-Bacca ... 599&sr=1-4

Absolutely agree about the side bets, it is always tempting when u see someone hits the Dragon bet with a couple of green chips there but in the long run , ouch. I read somewhere that instead of making the Tie bet go ahead and just bet somebody that the Sun is going to explode.

Since I only play Baccarat at the Gold Coast and the players are mostly Chinese, any wins on the Dragon or Panda are plowed right back into their betting cycle.

I like the EZ game given that I will play mostly banker runs unless player is trending.

[relus]

I have played poker for years but Baccarat is becoming my game of choice. My bankroll draw down is far less than poker.

[dblayout]

We are staying at the Gold Coast casino (in Vegas) next weekend. Ill have to check out this table.

[relus]

We are staying at the Gold Coast casino (in Vegas) next weekend. Ill have to check out this table.

There are four EZ tables at the end of the Baccarat pit. Then tend to be crowded but casino rules allow one to bet over the shoulder if there are no seats available.

[chuckmek]

I Play ez at the gold Coast whenever there. The dragon side bet is countable though and really easy to track. I've done alright with it. Usually only make the bet in the last 20-30 hands dealt if the count is good. Have a look at the link for the counting
http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/dragon-bet/.
Personally, I love being the only guy at the table that doesn't speak Chinese. Makes it king of fun!

[relus]

I Play ez at the gold Coast whenever there. The dragon side bet is countable though and really easy to track. I've done alright with it. Usually only make the bet in the last 20-30 hands dealt if the count is good. Have a look at the link for the counting
http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/dragon-bet/.
Personally, I love being the only guy at the table that doesn't speak Chinese. Makes it king of fun!

Thanks for the link! I will read and carefully consider the Dragon bet.

[Wizard]

Chuckmek....

You said...

"The dragon side bet is countable though and really easy to track. "

Would you be able/willing to provide the details of how you do this? Specifically the details as to how you add or subtract values based on certain cards. There are many here who do NOT have a card counting background from BJ - but are still very interested in how you have made the Dragon Bet a success...

I look forward to your explanation...

Thanks in advance...

Wizard.

[wudged]

Wizard, more details at http://apheat.net/summaries/bac-side-bets/

Under the Dragon-7 side bet, it lists
Use tags: (0, 0, 0, -1, -1, -1, -1, 2, 2, 0)
Trigger true count: +4

The tags correspond to (A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, X) (where X is a 10, J, Q, or K)

You start off at 0 - this is the running count. For every card you see, you find the corresponding tag and either add or subtract from your current running count. So when you see a 4, 5, 6, or 7, you subtract 1, and when you see an 8 or 9 you add 2.

The next step is to calculate the true count. To do this, you take the running count and divide by the number of decks you have not seen. This does not have to be exact but the closer you can get down to a half or even quarter deck, the better. (I say number of decks you have not seen rather than number of decks left in the shoe because you may have joined the shoe late.) The trigger is +4 so you make the Dragon-7 bet anytime the true count is +4 or higher.

If you'll notice, the count is going to be higher with the more 8s and 9s that are removed from the shoe. This is helpful because 8s and 9s are going to result in more naturals, which are losers for the Dragon-7 bet. It's bad when the mid cards come out because hands are more likely to draw when containing them, so they will lower the count.

The best part about counting it is that you are free to keep score and write down any information you want during the shoe, unlike BJ where you have to do it in your head. Of course, you probably still want to have some "secret" way of keeping count rather than writing down every single card or anything silly like that.

There is also a link to discountgambling.net that has a different count that is known as "unbalanced." With this method instead of starting the running count at 0, you start at a negative number and you bet once the running count reaches a certain number. There is no division/calculating true count involved.

[Wizard]

Wudged..

As always...your reply is very detailed yet easy to understand. Thanks a LOT for the info and links you posted above...

Wizard.

[relus]

Given that 8 deck shoes are used, the removal of one card is insignificant. What I have read in terms of counting cards in Baccarat, is that the end of the shoe may be more statistically significant for all the side bets.

[wudged]

It works the same in blackjack, which is why counters look for high penetration.

Suppose you have a bucket of marbles, and you know there is 1 black marble for every 9 red marbles in the bucket. You start with 100 marbles total (meaning 10 black and 90 red) and keep drawing marbles. With each red marble drawn, the chance of drawing a black is going to go up ever so slowly. With each black marble drawn, the change of drawing another black is going to drop - more so than the chance goes up upon drawing a red - but still not very much.

With a full bucket, your chance of black is 10/100 = 10%
Remove a red, and your chance becomes 10/99 = 10.1%
Remove a black, and your chance becomes 9/99 = 9.1%

As you get closer to the end of the bucket - let's say we end up drawing evenly and end up with 1 black and 9 red, each red that is removed is now going to have a much larger impact on your chances of drawing that remaining black marble.

Now, your chance of black is 1/10 = 10%
Remove a red, and your chance becomes 1/9 = 11.1%
Remove a black, and your chance becomes 0/9 = 0%

Looking at both cases, your initial chances were the same at 10%, but the effect of removing 1 red marble changed your chances to 10.1% in the first scenario but bumped it up to 11.1% in the second.

[relus]

It works the same in blackjack, which is why counters look for high penetration.

Suppose you have a bucket of marbles, and you know there is 1 black marble for every 9 red marbles in the bucket. You start with 100 marbles total (meaning 10 black and 90 red) and keep drawing marbles. With each red marble drawn, the chance of drawing a black is going to go up ever so slowly. With each black marble drawn, the change of drawing another black is going to drop - more so than the chance goes up upon drawing a red - but still not very much.

With a full bucket, your chance of black is 10/100 = 10%
Remove a red, and your chance becomes 10/99 = 10.1%
Remove a black, and your chance becomes 9/99 = 9.1%

As you get closer to the end of the bucket - let's say we end up drawing evenly and end up with 1 black and 9 red, each red that is removed is now going to have a much larger impact on your chances of drawing that remaining black marble.

Now, your chance of black is 1/10 = 10%
Remove a red, and your chance becomes 1/9 = 11.1%
Remove a black, and your chance becomes 0/9 = 0%

Looking at both cases, your initial chances were the same at 10%, but the effect of removing 1 red marble changed your chances to 10.1% in the first scenario but bumped it up to 11.1% in the second.

It seems to me that my bankroll variance will be much higher counting Baccarat cards. My usual way of playing should net me more in the long run.

[chuckmek]

I just seem to have a lot of fun watching everyone around me getting up on the dragon bet every time and mostly losing, then when I am up on it, I have a slight edge. As mentioned in the link to Elliot's site, you only get an average of 8 or so hands a shoe with the edge. It definitely makes the game more fun to play when you feel you have an edge....of course...an edge does not mean you will hit it....but it sure is fun when you have $10 on it and it hits. Once hit twice in a row...once....been parleying ever since to no avail....9 days in March....will be there at least part time between crap games at the Rio.

[relus]

I just seem to have a lot of fun watching everyone around me getting up on the dragon bet every time and mostly losing, then when I am up on it, I have a slight edge. As mentioned in the link to Elliot's site, you only get an average of 8 or so hands a shoe with the edge. It definitely makes the game more fun to play when you feel you have an edge....of course...an edge does not mean you will hit it....but it sure is fun when you have $10 on it and it hits. Once hit twice in a row...once....been parleying ever since to no avail....9 days in March....will be there at least part time between crap games at the Rio.

When I have time I will start work on this strategy. Besides the Gold Coast, how many other casinos have the EZ game. I know the Orleans has at least one table.

Thanks

[Bones]

Wonder if EZ bacc will find its way throughout all the Boyd Properties?

[Wizard]

Relus said...

"It seems to me that my bankroll variance will be much higher counting Baccarat cards. My usual way of playing should net me more in the long run."

Relus...what is your usual way of playing? Curious about what works for you. Always interested in seeing how others approach the game.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Wizard.

[relus]

Relus said...

"It seems to me that my bankroll variance will be much higher counting Baccarat cards. My usual way of playing should net me more in the long run."

Relus...what is your usual way of playing? Curious about what works for you. Always interested in seeing how others approach the game.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Wizard.

I follow the prevailing trend which tends to be banker. I don't play every hand but pay attention to how the shoe is playing out. I generally don't start betting until I see a trend. On most shoes the hands start out choppy so I stay away from that. If I can come out ahead three or four units a shoe, I consider that a success.

On the commission games I would focus on player but took too many hits. Although I will place bets on player from time to time.

I am not one to shove my entire stack on banker like many who think banker is due.

Lyle Stuart's book certainly helped my game!