Here's my roll data thru 600 rolls:
2: 1-1: (23) 23
3: 1-2: (17) 2-1 (25) 42
4: 1-3 (12). 3-1 (19) 2-2 (16) 47
5: 1-4 (22) 4-1 (15) 2-3 (15) and 3-2 (23) 75
6: 1-5 (19) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (20) 4-2 (22) 3-3 (16) 94
7: 1-6 (6) 6-1 (16) 2-5 (8) 5-2 (16) 3-4 (19) 4-3 (5) 70
8: 2-6 (15) 6-2 (18) 3-5 (22) 5-3 (21) 4-4 (18) 94
9: 3-6 (11) 6-3 (12) 4-5 (19) 5-4 (17) 59
10: 4-6 (12) 6-4 (21) 5-5 (17) 50
11: 5-6 (15) 6-5 (22) 37
12: 6-6 (9) 9
400 rolls remaining.... Maybe i get 100 Sunday Am and 100 Sunday Night. Thats would leave me with Mon-Tuesdays to finish...
Im Super curious to see how a) The sister set to the set I'm using for this performs over 1000 rolls and the Other set I typically use which is in 2v Family.
MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
I'm not as keen on "just breaking even" early, but then again, I don't anticipate longer rolls like you can throw either, so I'm looking for repeatable profits early. I like your thinking in the light of longer 15-minimum roll hands, especially considering you're covering the costs (and hunt) for a 5-5-5 ATS.VegasDiceController wrote:
Dork: ...
Also I realize $11 isn't anything to write home about, but it's not a loss and I can build from there. My main objective is get my initial across wager covered. And secondly to pay for my $10/10/10 ATS bonus bet.
I wanted to ask, considering the rolls you're posting at the end of this thread--what is the dice set you're using after the CO?
Also, I wondered if you hedged the last box number in an ATS? I always do, and sometimes wish I didn't, of course, when the last number rolls up, but as someone who's hedging against the $270 WOTCO, I wondered what your thoughts were on that last ATS box number. (I read that you took a $1200 payoff off the ATS so I know that at least once you didn't hedge, but I wondered if you ever considered it. Maybe your initial hedge is just a practice to guard against losses and not 'profits', like the potential offered by the ATS.)
Are you saying your scheme is to power press every box number roll without taking profits, using a 15th box number or 15th-roll payoff to trigger a complete regression?I'm more on the aggressive side of betting in that I believe that minimum one time during my 1-2 hr session, that I can have a hand of 15 rolls w/out a 7. If I can, and It's paid for, I can Power Press myself up to the 15 roll or max it w/15 box hits. Then pull 80-90% of $ off felt.
I don't understand this sentence.. "I lose $64 Across plus PL bet"--but in the beginning of the sentence, you say you don't have an Across bet. I can't make sense of it.In the past I would do this without the across bet and if it failed to reach 15, I lose $64 across plus PL bet.
I follow the quote above, but not this, below:But if one roll reached 15 paid hits it 1000-5000 or more depending on what's hit.
You have to be willing to sacrifice your loss if you don't reach you PP goal. Here was my roll from Saturday on an ATS table. I was $5/5/5/1/1/1. $18 for 2 way bonus. I work 4/10 on CO roll up to certain levels than determine if I need to hop one that is ahead and not work. If hit then tell dealer press your number you just hit with the payout.
What does it mean, "Press tip 15box numbers hit"?-- 'press until 15 box numbers are hit'?It's not a press to the moon, but a Press tip 15box numbers hit...
cO6,8.10,3.6 winner.
CO h10, 2, 5,10 winner.
CO 10, 11,6,4, 12, h10 winner.
CO 9, (won ATS bet $1225 w/CO9) 6,10, 9 winner.
CO9, 8,h8, 9 winner
CO7 (had to re up ATS $10/10/10/5/5/5) wCO7 , 6, 6 winner
CO6, h6 winner , CO5 12,3,12,8, 7out.
So using my first 15 rolls (I believe in myself PP) or 15 hits maximizing my belief, the PP after 15 hits turned into pulling $25 off the 4, pulling $25 off the 5, pulling $120 off the 6, pulling $120 off the 8, pulling $25 off the nine and pulling $6075 off the 10 for a gross of $6725 minus the $64 across plays PL and ATS.
This all makes sense to me up to a point. I think you're saying that the 10 was essentially parlayed repeatedly whenever it hit, until the 15th-winning roll, at which time you regressed to $64 Across. But my confusion is in the method of pressing--I can't figure out how you got from $10 wagers to a $35-4, a $35-5 and a $130-6 (etc.) in order to harvest $25 from the 4 and 5, and $120 from the 6 (etc.).
A $10-4 would go immediately to $30->$80, the 9 would go from $10->24->60, and the 6 would go from $12-> 24-> 54-> 120-> 260. Your harvest numbers seem to fall 'in between' pressed-bet amounts.
Maybe I don't understand "PP". I'm sorry for my density. It's a beautiful scheme worth considering even at smaller accumulated-roll triggers, and you've really got me thinkin' about 'what should I change when I'm ahead'? Thank you.
p. s. 111 HORN numbers thrown out of 600!?? I'm with MP--FIND you a Crapless table!!
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Dork, Ill try to answer the questions best I can.
Q1) First off concerning the set, I signed a Non Disclosure about what I was taught. Its a Hefty Fine, I wish not to Pay or dispute with attorneys. If you want to know more you can pm your email and we can talk about how you can learn about it off this site. The Set, Grip etc, doesn't matter as long as one can master what they are doing be it a HW,3V,2V, etc in whatever type of shot they use. I practice around 500-1000 rolls a week on my felt. Theres a reason my SRR is what it is. I put the time in and treat this like a business and not for Fun. Fun for me is staying home watching Movies with the Wife on Amazon Fire TV using xmvc and all it has to offer. What I do on tables is work to me.
Q2) Concerning my PP. First I was talking about it in 2 different times. When Used with the 240 across 35/50/60/60/naked/35, Id go for 1 hit or 2 hits on ATS table. Average win is 75 - the $20 hop and $3 AD/yo Im netting around $51 each hit. So 2 hits is $102. I then reduce down to $44 across, plus $10 point and 10 odds. Thats $64 plus my $10/10/10 ats and boys 2-1-2, totaling $104, Im basically at a free roll at this point. My goal is to use my skill set and fire away at ATS cherry picking the remaining ATS # left, while PP all my $10 place bets max to roll 15. Once toll fifteen I found how many Non paying hit. Say it 6 for whatever reason. Then I add 50% of 6 (3) and go for 3 more box hits then i reduce.
The roll Saturday, I did not do this fully. Had I did, I would of pulled over $6k off a table that I considered a free Play bet. I do this on myself. But you have to remember< if I don't get there its basically as if I wasn't even there bc it was free after all right? What i was saying about in past Id just work 4/10 only. No $240 across, No Lay, and take 1 roll at a time and focus on it, while PP each bet, again to 15 rolls. Then reduce across again $96 across, $160 across, $320 across depending on what I pull off. Think about what I did just last saturday. Say i did PP and Pull $6k of Do you know how many times i could attempt and miss out to 15 bc of that win. About 100. I have a 15+ roll hand at least 1 in 5.
Im not sold Yet on the 240 across with lay, this is what I'm working On. Im looking to reduce risk. Also Not sold on across WOTCO Like The MP $204 across or any other Across method that has ISR. After what happened this Friday night. I had protections and Lost, The All Across bet did worse than my Hedge. Im a fan of Low Risk high reward.
Q3) I was referring to before this experiment. I would work 4/10 on CO $10 ea. If Hit full press to $25. If Miss Id give dealer $10 5/9 and $12 68. So $54 across plus PL. If My roll ended on roll 2-14 Id Lose a net of $54 plus PL/odds and fire etc...
Q4) Was a typo. Im not a press to the Moon, but a Press 'To' my 15 rolls then Regress. Kind of explained it above a little. But at roll 15 i assess my roll whats on the felt etc. If I had a CO roll that was a non payer or craps Numbers or Co 7, I total them up divide by 2 and add these Box hits beyond 15. Again say there were 6... so i add 3 box hits to 15th roll and then regress.
Q5) My PP works like this. Goal is to get to Max bet during my roll: Again you have to be willing to lose $64 each time you miss.
4/10:$10, press to $25 collect $3, drop $1 go to $75. Drop $4 go to $225, Drop $10 got to $675, Drop $34 for to $2025, pays $6075-$101
5/9: $10,drop$1 $25, Go to $60, drop $6 go to $150, Collect $10 go to $350,Collect $90 go to $750, collect $255, go to $1500, collect $1100 go to $2500, Collect $1000 go to $5k
6/8: $12, drop $4 go to $30, C5 go to $60, C10 got to $120, C20 go to $240, C40 go to $480, C120 go to $900.... Don't want to drag on this progression... do you see how 6/8 blow? I use different HW combo with easy payout. I talked about it in someones thread yesterday. There is a much more powerful 6/8 if you can hit min 1 HW 6 or 8 or both...
Q6) yes the 10 was pressed and WOTCO or Hopped depending what level to CO7 exposure. I hate missing a Payout on a 4/10 on CO roll. Im either working them with a Lost number Lay... Say 9 is Long Gone. Well One of my Trendsetter Levels is probably laying it anyway... say its a CO roll and 4 is at $25 (i hit) and 10 is at $225 (3 hits). I want that 10 payout of $450 or 4 of $50.. So If 9 is Lost and Im laying anyway... Im probably bumping Lay to $300 and working the 4/10 as well as 5-10 red.... Hoping a 10is Hit. If a CO 7 is rolled, then i take the $200 payout and replace 10 and use PL and Any 7 to replace the 4. Other option is to Hop the 5-5 and 6-4. $5 for ea $150 on 5-5 and $10 for 6-4 for e $150. So Id probably sacrifice $13 5-5 and $26 6-4. This is where a 3 craps on CO wipes out $39 HOP. So i do a $5 craps. What seems like a waste on hedge the hedge, The real Loss comes when you don't do anything and that $5 craps check protecting the $39 hop 10 in reality cost me 1 progression from a $2025 10 to a $6075. When that happens you realize you should of made the move and throw the High house edge in the toilet. Bc I have the edge, Not them, bc Ill be putting $6k in my pocket while giving back $100 in hops/props etc.So I don't care if I lose $64 if I fall short. The 20, 30 40 50 60 roll hands that Im capable of delivering will supersede that $54-64 loss 1000 fold IMO.
I hope my confidence doesn't come across in an arrogant type of way. This is not for everyone. I do it bc I believe in myself. Ive done it to others (HRR, SR, Koi as well and its worked on them. In fact HRR one i made 2500 on a 50 handle roll after being down $500 early on. Koi a buddy in town hit a 54 roll hand down town a few months back. I use it on guys i think can deliver a 20 roll hand consistently. When its done, its a thing of beauty, when it reaches 50+ its gone thru 3 tiers of press and regresses, The Longer your first one goes without regressing the more you start 2nd regression bc of amy pulled off table. At times i use 30 rolls. I just say F it...going $64 across WOTCO for 30 then use regression to $300 across. That will bank a few k for sure... Starting January 1 i plan to record all my rolls and how i played them in excel. I've gone thru this a Million times using LB Playing Craps as a Profession Progressions/regressions etc and seen a Million others.... its based off Average Joe Shooter not knowing if hand is gonna be 1 roll or 50 rolls. So you have to have a financial Plan of attack or you will go broke.
Not sold on Crap less tables but Jury is still out. Ned to go and try my Luck Those Tables might not be beatable yes they have PB for 2.3.11.12, but if dice are flying all over the place and bounce isn't consistent to control, why waste my time. I think Strat has Crap less, Plaza has a table, Not sure how many others. So nOw is that $104 across? lol $10 on each. What seems like it would work is lying 1 Lost number here. Or Work 2,3,4 10,11,12. So thats $60 working... Maybe lay 6 to Win $78. Work H6 for $7... Hop 5-1 Six for $5. You now only have 2 dice combos 4-2/2-4 that can bite you. Risk really is just the Hop. Again if a 2,3,4,10,11,12, full press those... On roll 15, take most (80%) off table and regress.....Ifs aggressive, but if my edge is these craps numbers, 4,5,6,8,10 (then id lay 9...just was using 6 as an example...
Hope that helps answer your ? dork..
well gonna post roll data. Did final 400 rolls today throughout day while watching foots in my craps pit.
Q1) First off concerning the set, I signed a Non Disclosure about what I was taught. Its a Hefty Fine, I wish not to Pay or dispute with attorneys. If you want to know more you can pm your email and we can talk about how you can learn about it off this site. The Set, Grip etc, doesn't matter as long as one can master what they are doing be it a HW,3V,2V, etc in whatever type of shot they use. I practice around 500-1000 rolls a week on my felt. Theres a reason my SRR is what it is. I put the time in and treat this like a business and not for Fun. Fun for me is staying home watching Movies with the Wife on Amazon Fire TV using xmvc and all it has to offer. What I do on tables is work to me.
Q2) Concerning my PP. First I was talking about it in 2 different times. When Used with the 240 across 35/50/60/60/naked/35, Id go for 1 hit or 2 hits on ATS table. Average win is 75 - the $20 hop and $3 AD/yo Im netting around $51 each hit. So 2 hits is $102. I then reduce down to $44 across, plus $10 point and 10 odds. Thats $64 plus my $10/10/10 ats and boys 2-1-2, totaling $104, Im basically at a free roll at this point. My goal is to use my skill set and fire away at ATS cherry picking the remaining ATS # left, while PP all my $10 place bets max to roll 15. Once toll fifteen I found how many Non paying hit. Say it 6 for whatever reason. Then I add 50% of 6 (3) and go for 3 more box hits then i reduce.
The roll Saturday, I did not do this fully. Had I did, I would of pulled over $6k off a table that I considered a free Play bet. I do this on myself. But you have to remember< if I don't get there its basically as if I wasn't even there bc it was free after all right? What i was saying about in past Id just work 4/10 only. No $240 across, No Lay, and take 1 roll at a time and focus on it, while PP each bet, again to 15 rolls. Then reduce across again $96 across, $160 across, $320 across depending on what I pull off. Think about what I did just last saturday. Say i did PP and Pull $6k of Do you know how many times i could attempt and miss out to 15 bc of that win. About 100. I have a 15+ roll hand at least 1 in 5.
Im not sold Yet on the 240 across with lay, this is what I'm working On. Im looking to reduce risk. Also Not sold on across WOTCO Like The MP $204 across or any other Across method that has ISR. After what happened this Friday night. I had protections and Lost, The All Across bet did worse than my Hedge. Im a fan of Low Risk high reward.
Q3) I was referring to before this experiment. I would work 4/10 on CO $10 ea. If Hit full press to $25. If Miss Id give dealer $10 5/9 and $12 68. So $54 across plus PL. If My roll ended on roll 2-14 Id Lose a net of $54 plus PL/odds and fire etc...
Q4) Was a typo. Im not a press to the Moon, but a Press 'To' my 15 rolls then Regress. Kind of explained it above a little. But at roll 15 i assess my roll whats on the felt etc. If I had a CO roll that was a non payer or craps Numbers or Co 7, I total them up divide by 2 and add these Box hits beyond 15. Again say there were 6... so i add 3 box hits to 15th roll and then regress.
Q5) My PP works like this. Goal is to get to Max bet during my roll: Again you have to be willing to lose $64 each time you miss.
4/10:$10, press to $25 collect $3, drop $1 go to $75. Drop $4 go to $225, Drop $10 got to $675, Drop $34 for to $2025, pays $6075-$101
5/9: $10,drop$1 $25, Go to $60, drop $6 go to $150, Collect $10 go to $350,Collect $90 go to $750, collect $255, go to $1500, collect $1100 go to $2500, Collect $1000 go to $5k
6/8: $12, drop $4 go to $30, C5 go to $60, C10 got to $120, C20 go to $240, C40 go to $480, C120 go to $900.... Don't want to drag on this progression... do you see how 6/8 blow? I use different HW combo with easy payout. I talked about it in someones thread yesterday. There is a much more powerful 6/8 if you can hit min 1 HW 6 or 8 or both...
Q6) yes the 10 was pressed and WOTCO or Hopped depending what level to CO7 exposure. I hate missing a Payout on a 4/10 on CO roll. Im either working them with a Lost number Lay... Say 9 is Long Gone. Well One of my Trendsetter Levels is probably laying it anyway... say its a CO roll and 4 is at $25 (i hit) and 10 is at $225 (3 hits). I want that 10 payout of $450 or 4 of $50.. So If 9 is Lost and Im laying anyway... Im probably bumping Lay to $300 and working the 4/10 as well as 5-10 red.... Hoping a 10is Hit. If a CO 7 is rolled, then i take the $200 payout and replace 10 and use PL and Any 7 to replace the 4. Other option is to Hop the 5-5 and 6-4. $5 for ea $150 on 5-5 and $10 for 6-4 for e $150. So Id probably sacrifice $13 5-5 and $26 6-4. This is where a 3 craps on CO wipes out $39 HOP. So i do a $5 craps. What seems like a waste on hedge the hedge, The real Loss comes when you don't do anything and that $5 craps check protecting the $39 hop 10 in reality cost me 1 progression from a $2025 10 to a $6075. When that happens you realize you should of made the move and throw the High house edge in the toilet. Bc I have the edge, Not them, bc Ill be putting $6k in my pocket while giving back $100 in hops/props etc.So I don't care if I lose $64 if I fall short. The 20, 30 40 50 60 roll hands that Im capable of delivering will supersede that $54-64 loss 1000 fold IMO.
I hope my confidence doesn't come across in an arrogant type of way. This is not for everyone. I do it bc I believe in myself. Ive done it to others (HRR, SR, Koi as well and its worked on them. In fact HRR one i made 2500 on a 50 handle roll after being down $500 early on. Koi a buddy in town hit a 54 roll hand down town a few months back. I use it on guys i think can deliver a 20 roll hand consistently. When its done, its a thing of beauty, when it reaches 50+ its gone thru 3 tiers of press and regresses, The Longer your first one goes without regressing the more you start 2nd regression bc of amy pulled off table. At times i use 30 rolls. I just say F it...going $64 across WOTCO for 30 then use regression to $300 across. That will bank a few k for sure... Starting January 1 i plan to record all my rolls and how i played them in excel. I've gone thru this a Million times using LB Playing Craps as a Profession Progressions/regressions etc and seen a Million others.... its based off Average Joe Shooter not knowing if hand is gonna be 1 roll or 50 rolls. So you have to have a financial Plan of attack or you will go broke.
Not sold on Crap less tables but Jury is still out. Ned to go and try my Luck Those Tables might not be beatable yes they have PB for 2.3.11.12, but if dice are flying all over the place and bounce isn't consistent to control, why waste my time. I think Strat has Crap less, Plaza has a table, Not sure how many others. So nOw is that $104 across? lol $10 on each. What seems like it would work is lying 1 Lost number here. Or Work 2,3,4 10,11,12. So thats $60 working... Maybe lay 6 to Win $78. Work H6 for $7... Hop 5-1 Six for $5. You now only have 2 dice combos 4-2/2-4 that can bite you. Risk really is just the Hop. Again if a 2,3,4,10,11,12, full press those... On roll 15, take most (80%) off table and regress.....Ifs aggressive, but if my edge is these craps numbers, 4,5,6,8,10 (then id lay 9...just was using 6 as an example...
Hope that helps answer your ? dork..
well gonna post roll data. Did final 400 rolls today throughout day while watching foots in my craps pit.
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Mp, Well Today Sunday I completed the remaining rolls to finish my 1000 roll data. Im gonna try to do what you did for me in the graph using Bone Tracker but My Mac says its read only. Not sure if it will let me do all the functions
Hoping you will add these 600 rolls in the 400 he did already...
Here's my roll data thru 1000 rolls:
2: 1-1: (38) 38
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62
12: 6-6 (19) 19
SRR of 8.62 with this set/grip from SR1
These last 400, some things that stood out to me were the amounts of Hard 10's and that the 2,3,11, still seemed to show up. Also the amounts of 9's seemed to be strong, thus balancing some things out I'm sure... Well, Im curious to the Bone tracker outcome.
Thx Again
Hoping you will add these 600 rolls in the 400 he did already...
Here's my roll data thru 1000 rolls:
2: 1-1: (38) 38
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62
12: 6-6 (19) 19
SRR of 8.62 with this set/grip from SR1
These last 400, some things that stood out to me were the amounts of Hard 10's and that the 2,3,11, still seemed to show up. Also the amounts of 9's seemed to be strong, thus balancing some things out I'm sure... Well, Im curious to the Bone tracker outcome.
Thx Again
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
VDC,
Thank you very much for taking all the time to answer my questions. I've got a lot of thinkin' and self-evaluating to do. There's no doubt the scale is too big for me at this point, but my practice SSR is getting better, so a smaller-scaled version would work for me.
I like the notion of using placed 6/8's to fund HW bets; I used to do that too, but that was in my early days when I was more a RR when I was experimenting with home-made betting schemes. (I hadn't found a craps forum yet.) As I learned about practicing and my SSR got better, I concentrated on different schemes and somehow 1-unit HW bets for every 3-unit place bets kind of fell into oblivion, and I just flat forgot about the scheme. But I didn't like the payoff for the placed 6/8, either, and your HW outline was really inspiring, too.
I much appreciate the time you took to bang the keyboard with your detailed responses.
Thank you very much for taking all the time to answer my questions. I've got a lot of thinkin' and self-evaluating to do. There's no doubt the scale is too big for me at this point, but my practice SSR is getting better, so a smaller-scaled version would work for me.
I like the notion of using placed 6/8's to fund HW bets; I used to do that too, but that was in my early days when I was more a RR when I was experimenting with home-made betting schemes. (I hadn't found a craps forum yet.) As I learned about practicing and my SSR got better, I concentrated on different schemes and somehow 1-unit HW bets for every 3-unit place bets kind of fell into oblivion, and I just flat forgot about the scheme. But I didn't like the payoff for the placed 6/8, either, and your HW outline was really inspiring, too.
I much appreciate the time you took to bang the keyboard with your detailed responses.
-
Mad Professor
- Posts: 1830
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:15 pm
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
VegasDiceController wrote:Mp, Well Today Sunday I completed the remaining rolls to finish my 1000 roll data. Im gonna try to do what you did for me in the graph using Bone Tracker but My Mac says its read only. Not sure if it will let me do all the functions
Hoping you will add these 600 rolls in the 400 he did already...
Here's my roll data thru 1000 rolls:
2: 1-1: (38) 38
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62
12: 6-6 (19) 19
SRR of 8.62 with this set/grip from SR1
These last 400, some things that stood out to me were the amounts of Hard 10's and that the 2,3,11, still seemed to show up. Also the amounts of 9's seemed to be strong, thus balancing some things out I'm sure... Well, Im curious to the Bone tracker outcome.
Thx Again
Hi VDC,
If you can produce a similar influence-profile Pattern-of-Influence in the real-world; then even a steady-state (non-pressed/non-regressed) betting-approach, where you focus the majority of your betting-weight on your top two or three highest-advantage numbers, will bring in all kinds of money.
You will find the newly-updated charts HERE.
MP
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Thanks again MP for work here and Link to Dice Institute
New Set. Same Grip, this shot and delivery is the same from SR1.
All I did was Switch to a Come Out Set, Which is suppose to Deliver 7's and Horns.
It delivered 11 sevens first 50, 10 the 2nd 50, 10 the 3rd 50, but only 4 the remaining 50. Not sure if I got a little tired and mechanics broke down. I thought i felt ok, just did not deliver the CO sevens. Only got 4 sevens in last 50
Here's my roll data thru 400 rolls:
2: 1-1: (13) 13
3: 1-2: (12) 2-1 (19) 31
4: 1-3 (5). 3-1 (13) 2-2 (11) 29
5: 1-4 (14) 4-1 (13) 2-3 (8) and 3-2 (9) 44
6: 1-5 (14) 5-1 (11) 2-4 (13) 4-2 (8) 3-3 (11) 57
7: 1-6 (6) 6-1 (9) 2-5 (9) 5-2 (16) 3-4 (17) 4-3 (13) 70
8: 2-6 (13) 6-2 (12) 3-5 (10) 5-3 (11) 4-4 (9) 55
9: 3-6 (4) 6-3 (9) 4-5 (9) 5-4 (10) 32
10: 4-6 (11) 6-4 (14) 5-5 (6) 31
11: 5-6 (17) 6-5 (10) 27
12: 6-6 (11) 11
New Set. Same Grip, this shot and delivery is the same from SR1.
All I did was Switch to a Come Out Set, Which is suppose to Deliver 7's and Horns.
It delivered 11 sevens first 50, 10 the 2nd 50, 10 the 3rd 50, but only 4 the remaining 50. Not sure if I got a little tired and mechanics broke down. I thought i felt ok, just did not deliver the CO sevens. Only got 4 sevens in last 50
Here's my roll data thru 400 rolls:
2: 1-1: (13) 13
3: 1-2: (12) 2-1 (19) 31
4: 1-3 (5). 3-1 (13) 2-2 (11) 29
5: 1-4 (14) 4-1 (13) 2-3 (8) and 3-2 (9) 44
6: 1-5 (14) 5-1 (11) 2-4 (13) 4-2 (8) 3-3 (11) 57
7: 1-6 (6) 6-1 (9) 2-5 (9) 5-2 (16) 3-4 (17) 4-3 (13) 70
8: 2-6 (13) 6-2 (12) 3-5 (10) 5-3 (11) 4-4 (9) 55
9: 3-6 (4) 6-3 (9) 4-5 (9) 5-4 (10) 32
10: 4-6 (11) 6-4 (14) 5-5 (6) 31
11: 5-6 (17) 6-5 (10) 27
12: 6-6 (11) 11
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
So what I'm seeing from this CO set thru the 400 rolls has come to this so far...
1) Lay 6-3 nine, while Hopping the 5-4 On the CO roll Only thirteen 6-3's/3-6 nines thrown thru 400 rolls. This should be around 45 Nines and 50% of those being 3-6/6-3. Im almost 50% less on 6-3 nines. Will see if this would work thru 100 rolls.... 600 rolls to go.
1) Lay 6-3 nine, while Hopping the 5-4 On the CO roll Only thirteen 6-3's/3-6 nines thrown thru 400 rolls. This should be around 45 Nines and 50% of those being 3-6/6-3. Im almost 50% less on 6-3 nines. Will see if this would work thru 100 rolls.... 600 rolls to go.
-
Mad Professor
- Posts: 1830
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:15 pm
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
VegasDiceController wrote:Thanks again MP for work here and Link to Dice Institute
New Set. Same Grip, this shot and delivery is the same from SR1.
All I did was Switch to a Come Out Set, Which is suppose to Deliver 7's and Horns.
It delivered 11 sevens first 50, 10 the 2nd 50, 10 the 3rd 50, but only 4 the remaining 50. Not sure if I got a little tired and mechanics broke down. I thought i felt ok, just did not deliver the CO sevens. Only got 4 sevens in last 50
Here's my roll data thru 400 rolls:
2: 1-1: (13) 13
3: 1-2: (12) 2-1 (19) 31
4: 1-3 (5). 3-1 (13) 2-2 (11) 29
5: 1-4 (14) 4-1 (13) 2-3 (8) and 3-2 (9) 44
6: 1-5 (14) 5-1 (11) 2-4 (13) 4-2 (8) 3-3 (11) 57
7: 1-6 (6) 6-1 (9) 2-5 (9) 5-2 (16) 3-4 (17) 4-3 (13) 70
8: 2-6 (13) 6-2 (12) 3-5 (10) 5-3 (11) 4-4 (9) 55
9: 3-6 (4) 6-3 (9) 4-5 (9) 5-4 (10) 32
10: 4-6 (11) 6-4 (14) 5-5 (6) 31
11: 5-6 (17) 6-5 (10) 27
12: 6-6 (11) 11
Hi VDC,
I ran your most-recent set of Lay-centric numbers. The charted-results are HERE.
MP
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Here's my roll data thru 500 rolls:
Slight setback due to Xmas and all....
Was able to get 100 rolls in today... Will try to get it to 600 by tonight...
2: 1-1: (14) 14
3: 1-2: (15) 2-1 (22) 37
4: 1-3 (7). 3-1 (15) 2-2 (11) 36
5: 1-4 (14) 4-1 (17) 2-3 (11) and 3-2 (11) 53
6: 1-5 (15) 5-1 (11) 2-4 (14) 4-2 (9) 3-3 (11) 62
7: 1-6 (13) 6-1 (13) 2-5 (13) 5-2 (17) 3-4 (20) 4-3 (16) 92
8: 6-2 (18) 2-6 (15) 5-3 (15) 3-5 (10) 4-4 (12) 71
9: 6-3 (12) 3-6 (8) 5-4 (14) 4-5 (12) 46
10: 6-4 (18) 4-6 (14) 5-5 (9) 40
11: 6-5 (11) 5-6 (24) 35
12: 6-6 (14) 14
Slight setback due to Xmas and all....
Was able to get 100 rolls in today... Will try to get it to 600 by tonight...
2: 1-1: (14) 14
3: 1-2: (15) 2-1 (22) 37
4: 1-3 (7). 3-1 (15) 2-2 (11) 36
5: 1-4 (14) 4-1 (17) 2-3 (11) and 3-2 (11) 53
6: 1-5 (15) 5-1 (11) 2-4 (14) 4-2 (9) 3-3 (11) 62
7: 1-6 (13) 6-1 (13) 2-5 (13) 5-2 (17) 3-4 (20) 4-3 (16) 92
8: 6-2 (18) 2-6 (15) 5-3 (15) 3-5 (10) 4-4 (12) 71
9: 6-3 (12) 3-6 (8) 5-4 (14) 4-5 (12) 46
10: 6-4 (18) 4-6 (14) 5-5 (9) 40
11: 6-5 (11) 5-6 (24) 35
12: 6-6 (14) 14
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
Below is Point Cycle roll data of 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (38) 38 (27.78) +10.2
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62 (55.56) +6.4
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81 (83.33) -2.3
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125 (111.11) +13.9
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141 (138.89) +5.1
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116 (166.67) +50.7
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142 (138.89) +3.1
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121 (111.11) +9.9
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93 (83.33) +9.7
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62 (55.56) +6.4
12: 6-6 (19) 19 (27.78) +0
-------------------
SRR for these 1000 Rolls was 8.62
Below is Come Out World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 700 rolls
2: 1-1: (19) 19 (19.4)
3: 1-2: (18) 2-1 (34) 52 (38.9)
4: 1-3 (14) 3-1 (25) 2-2 (16) 55 (58.3)
5: 1-4 (23) 4-1 (23) 2-3 (15) and 3-2 (15) 76 (77.8)
6: 1-5 (22) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (22) 4-2 (14) 3-3 (13) 88 (97.2)
7: 1-6 (15) 6-1 (15) 2-5 (23) 5-2 (22) 3-4 (25) 4-3 (21) (121) (116.7)
8: 2-6 (20) 6-2 (24) 3-5 (18) 5-3 (21) 4-4 (19) 102 (97.2)
9: 3-6 (12) 6-3 (19) 4-5 (19) 5-4 (15) 65 (77.8)
10: 4-6 (17) 6-4 (25) 5-5 (14) 56 (58.3)
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (15) 45 (38.9)
12: 6-6 (21) 21 (19.4)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 37% on CO Roll Thru 700 Rolls Only
Little disappointed in amount of sevens thrown so far. Only 5 above Probability. Looking more like a Horn Set, in that Horns not Losing to Co7, assuming i do find a LOST or my weakest number to LAY. Only 37% of these rolls Occurred on Co Set. Probability is 33.3% so only a slight edge so far. That also means i have a 63% chance of NOT winning this World bet as well.
Its good to test this as clearly its not as strong as I originally thought. My Goal here is to bet a World bet on come out roll and Lay my weakest Number or Lay entire back wall, knowing I have a 37% chance of producing World Numbers (2.3.7.11.12), while hoping to String together some CO Sevens. Laying $180 across back wall, I have a Risk of only $31 loss, with Potential to Win around $120 with every Seven thrown on CO roll. Been doing something similar now for a Over a Year now, just Laying back wall, hopping 2 of 3 sevens, with ace-duece Yo on CO roll. I only Lose $31 when point lands on a Box, Which means you must deliver 1 seven in around 4 attempts to break even. Any more is Profit. So if you can throw Sevens on the CO, this play is For YOU!!!
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
Below is Point Cycle roll data of 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (38) 38 (27.78) +10.2
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62 (55.56) +6.4
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81 (83.33) -2.3
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125 (111.11) +13.9
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141 (138.89) +5.1
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116 (166.67) +50.7
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142 (138.89) +3.1
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121 (111.11) +9.9
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93 (83.33) +9.7
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62 (55.56) +6.4
12: 6-6 (19) 19 (27.78) +0
-------------------
SRR for these 1000 Rolls was 8.62
Below is Come Out World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 700 rolls
2: 1-1: (19) 19 (19.4)
3: 1-2: (18) 2-1 (34) 52 (38.9)
4: 1-3 (14) 3-1 (25) 2-2 (16) 55 (58.3)
5: 1-4 (23) 4-1 (23) 2-3 (15) and 3-2 (15) 76 (77.8)
6: 1-5 (22) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (22) 4-2 (14) 3-3 (13) 88 (97.2)
7: 1-6 (15) 6-1 (15) 2-5 (23) 5-2 (22) 3-4 (25) 4-3 (21) (121) (116.7)
8: 2-6 (20) 6-2 (24) 3-5 (18) 5-3 (21) 4-4 (19) 102 (97.2)
9: 3-6 (12) 6-3 (19) 4-5 (19) 5-4 (15) 65 (77.8)
10: 4-6 (17) 6-4 (25) 5-5 (14) 56 (58.3)
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (15) 45 (38.9)
12: 6-6 (21) 21 (19.4)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 37% on CO Roll Thru 700 Rolls Only
Little disappointed in amount of sevens thrown so far. Only 5 above Probability. Looking more like a Horn Set, in that Horns not Losing to Co7, assuming i do find a LOST or my weakest number to LAY. Only 37% of these rolls Occurred on Co Set. Probability is 33.3% so only a slight edge so far. That also means i have a 63% chance of NOT winning this World bet as well.
Its good to test this as clearly its not as strong as I originally thought. My Goal here is to bet a World bet on come out roll and Lay my weakest Number or Lay entire back wall, knowing I have a 37% chance of producing World Numbers (2.3.7.11.12), while hoping to String together some CO Sevens. Laying $180 across back wall, I have a Risk of only $31 loss, with Potential to Win around $120 with every Seven thrown on CO roll. Been doing something similar now for a Over a Year now, just Laying back wall, hopping 2 of 3 sevens, with ace-duece Yo on CO roll. I only Lose $31 when point lands on a Box, Which means you must deliver 1 seven in around 4 attempts to break even. Any more is Profit. So if you can throw Sevens on the CO, this play is For YOU!!!
Last edited by VegasDiceController on Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
I edited the last post to reflect the new 100 rolls added last night....probably should of just put new post in case anyone was curious to how many of what numbers was thrown between 600-700 ...duh...my mistake
Below is Come Out World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 700 rolls
2: 1-1: (19) 19 (19.4)
3: 1-2: (18) 2-1 (34) 52 (38.9)
4: 1-3 (14) 3-1 (25) 2-2 (16) 55 (58.3)
5: 1-4 (23) 4-1 (23) 2-3 (15) and 3-2 (15) 76 (77.8)
6: 1-5 (22) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (22) 4-2 (14) 3-3 (13) 88 (97.2)
7: 1-6 (15) 6-1 (15) 2-5 (23) 5-2 (22) 3-4 (25) 4-3 (21) (121) (116.7)
8: 2-6 (20) 6-2 (24) 3-5 (18) 5-3 (21) 4-4 (19) 102 (97.2)
9: 3-6 (12) 6-3 (19) 4-5 (19) 5-4 (15) 65 (77.8)
10: 4-6 (17) 6-4 (25) 5-5 (14) 56 (58.3)
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (15) 45 (38.9)
12: 6-6 (21) 21 (19.4)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 37% on CO Roll Thru 700 Rolls Only
Little disappointed in amount of sevens thrown so far. Only 5 above Probability. Looking more like a Horn Set, in that Horns not Losing to Co7, assuming i do find a LOST or my weakest number to LAY. Only 37% of these rolls Occurred on Co Set. Probability is 33.3% so only a slight edge so far. That also means i have a 63% chance of NOT winning this World bet as well.
Its good to test this as clearly its not as strong as I originally thought. My Goal here is to bet a World bet on come out roll and Lay my weakest Number or Lay entire back wall, knowing I have a 37% chance of producing World Numbers (2.3.7.11.12), while hoping to String together some CO Sevens. Laying $180 across back wall, I have a Risk of only $31 loss, with Potential to Win around $120 with every Seven thrown on CO roll. Been doing something similar now for a Over a Year now, just Laying back wall, hopping 2 of 3 sevens, with ace-duece Yo on CO roll. I only Lose $31 when point lands on a Box, Which means you must deliver 1 seven in around 4 attempts to break even. Any more is Profit. So if you can throw Sevens on the CO, this play is For YOU!!!
Below is Come Out World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 700 rolls
2: 1-1: (19) 19 (19.4)
3: 1-2: (18) 2-1 (34) 52 (38.9)
4: 1-3 (14) 3-1 (25) 2-2 (16) 55 (58.3)
5: 1-4 (23) 4-1 (23) 2-3 (15) and 3-2 (15) 76 (77.8)
6: 1-5 (22) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (22) 4-2 (14) 3-3 (13) 88 (97.2)
7: 1-6 (15) 6-1 (15) 2-5 (23) 5-2 (22) 3-4 (25) 4-3 (21) (121) (116.7)
8: 2-6 (20) 6-2 (24) 3-5 (18) 5-3 (21) 4-4 (19) 102 (97.2)
9: 3-6 (12) 6-3 (19) 4-5 (19) 5-4 (15) 65 (77.8)
10: 4-6 (17) 6-4 (25) 5-5 (14) 56 (58.3)
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (15) 45 (38.9)
12: 6-6 (21) 21 (19.4)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 37% on CO Roll Thru 700 Rolls Only
Little disappointed in amount of sevens thrown so far. Only 5 above Probability. Looking more like a Horn Set, in that Horns not Losing to Co7, assuming i do find a LOST or my weakest number to LAY. Only 37% of these rolls Occurred on Co Set. Probability is 33.3% so only a slight edge so far. That also means i have a 63% chance of NOT winning this World bet as well.
Its good to test this as clearly its not as strong as I originally thought. My Goal here is to bet a World bet on come out roll and Lay my weakest Number or Lay entire back wall, knowing I have a 37% chance of producing World Numbers (2.3.7.11.12), while hoping to String together some CO Sevens. Laying $180 across back wall, I have a Risk of only $31 loss, with Potential to Win around $120 with every Seven thrown on CO roll. Been doing something similar now for a Over a Year now, just Laying back wall, hopping 2 of 3 sevens, with ace-duece Yo on CO roll. I only Lose $31 when point lands on a Box, Which means you must deliver 1 seven in around 4 attempts to break even. Any more is Profit. So if you can throw Sevens on the CO, this play is For YOU!!!
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Below is Come Out World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 800 rolls
2: 1-1: (23) (19) (22.2)
3: 1-2: (20) 2-1 (36) (56) (44.4)
4: 1-3 (16) 3-1 (28) 2-2 (21) (65) (66.7)
5: 1-4 (23) 4-1 (26) 2-3 (19) and 3-2 (17) (85) (88.9)
6: 1-5 (25) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (25 4-2 (15) 3-3 (17) (88) (111.1)
7: 1-6 (16) 6-1 (17) 2-5 (24) 5-2 (26) 3-4 (27) 4-3 (27) (137) (133.3)
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (27) 3-5 (20) 5-3 (23) 4-4 (20) (119) (111.1)
9: 3-6 (16) 6-3 (23) 4-5 (22) 5-4 (15) (76) (88.9)
10: 4-6 (20) 6-4 (25) 5-5 (19) (64) (66.7)
11: 5-6 (31) 6-5 (19) (50) (44.4)
12: 6-6 (24 (24) (22.2)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 35.7 % on CO Roll Thru 800 Rolls Only
2: 1-1: (23) (19) (22.2)
3: 1-2: (20) 2-1 (36) (56) (44.4)
4: 1-3 (16) 3-1 (28) 2-2 (21) (65) (66.7)
5: 1-4 (23) 4-1 (26) 2-3 (19) and 3-2 (17) (85) (88.9)
6: 1-5 (25) 5-1 (17) 2-4 (25 4-2 (15) 3-3 (17) (88) (111.1)
7: 1-6 (16) 6-1 (17) 2-5 (24) 5-2 (26) 3-4 (27) 4-3 (27) (137) (133.3)
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (27) 3-5 (20) 5-3 (23) 4-4 (20) (119) (111.1)
9: 3-6 (16) 6-3 (23) 4-5 (22) 5-4 (15) (76) (88.9)
10: 4-6 (20) 6-4 (25) 5-5 (19) (64) (66.7)
11: 5-6 (31) 6-5 (19) (50) (44.4)
12: 6-6 (24 (24) (22.2)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 35.7 % on CO Roll Thru 800 Rolls Only
-
VegasDiceController
Trend Setter Level 3 LAY LOW Progression Below...
Went to my favorite Watering Hole (j/k don't really drink much...my code for Craps session) after work last night. Yes VDC still holds a 6-5 Job and isn't retired yet. Seven more years and I can do Craps FT as Im gonna get out at 58. I was ultra cautious bc of NYE Dice...haha...I knew Id get a few smiles...or smirks... lol actually this House had same serial #'s as they have been using so no tricks up their sleeve there for NYE. Half the reason i play there. Besides NO heat, they know how i play and i make a mistake, they will sometimes Grant me my Play and PAY me. Gotta LOVE it, when theirs mutual Trust. I.E last night they tried to pay me $100 to much. I gave it back to him. Dude didn't even say thanks for your Honesty VDC (wait, they don't know me as that) nor did they say thanks when i hit a 4 pointer at Table A when I put up $5 for them.... Non Gratitude bugs the hell out of me. From Dealers to fellow Crapsters I toke while I play not giving thanks....sometimes into the high hundreds... My Wife tells me to Give without expecting anything in return, even a TY back. Hard for me they way i was raised. Be appreciative people what others do for you and show your Gratitude for it. anyway, where was i...
Using my experiment set/shot/delivery from SR1, I fired off BTB 4 pointers (different tables) ...Damn it, could not Land the 5th, both times...Repeaters... Yes 250:1 x two 4pt fire winners is a nice NYE gift and i am eternally Grateful don't get me wrong, but had to many repeaters for points. Tried my 180* reversal trick on come out, but kept getting the 6, lmao. Needed 5 and 10 on one of 4 pointers and 5 and 9 on the other. But, I took advantage of a Lost 4 (92 rolls in between the 4 that rolled). and I laid the piss out of it, using my 4 Tiered Positive progression. So TY Craps Gods for blessing me with two 4 Pointers.
Here is my Lost # progression. This is part of Trend Setter Level 3 Lay Low a from my Level 3. I won't give the triggers I use for when i enter and exit and Pause, bc it would not be fair to those who PAID for Level 3. But here is my progression. Your triggers can be your triggers, the KEY is maximizing the RUN with minimal risk.
Trend Setter Craps Level 3 LAY LOW Progression:
This is for a $500 buy in/10 units or $50 unit:( I play 2 LEVELS of Trend Setter, so i buy in for $1000and $1500 for 3 Levels.
Risk is 2 units: Bet/Win/Vig/Hop HW point on CO roll/
1) Bet 100/50/-2 to win 50 full press 150/75/-4 full press 220/110/-6/-7. At this point your 2 unit risk (assuming $50 unit) has paid $50,75 and 110 payout, totaling $235 less the 2,4 and 6 Vig for a net of $223. Once it reaches 3rd Level I hop 2/2 h4 for $7, so net is actually $218 or roughly 4.25 units. This is spot I want to be in bc my 4th Tiered is a match of 3rd Tier play. This way I still am ahead if i get picked off. So $220/110 and wham, another 7 out winner. Now I'm up around $315 or 6.25 units for my 2 unit risk.
So do you quit now? Up around 6.25 units. NOPE. You restart LAY LOW Play at 2nd level entry of what 4 tiers was, but reduce to 3 Progressions instead of four as our window of safety is reduced I.E... $150/$75/-4 win advance full press to $220/110/-6/-7 (use Hop H4 here) Win Now repeat L2 play so $220/110/-6-7. Win this. Now this produces 75/110/110 less -30, for a net for these 3 of $295-30 $265 or 4.75 units. Thats 7 straight sevens w/out a 4 being rolled on Co or point cycle, for a win of around 11 units.
Do you stop here? NOPE, restart at 2nd Level of 2nd run... Its important to know, during my 15 year research on this is this. More times than not the 4 appears on the CO roll more than the Point cycle when it does decide to return. Hence the reason for the HOP at the stage I decide to use it.
So $220/110/-6/-7 Win and go full press for $330/150/-7-10 (this is where I Hop now H4 for $10 for a $300 win. Win this here, so L3 now repeats the L2. So $330/150/-7/-10 I won this 3 tier and my net is $410 minus -47 and a +$363 or 7.25 units. Now collecting 18.25 units.
Again keep going, is this a coincidence or are these Biased Dice not producing a 3-1/1-3 or 2-2 which should occur every 12 rolls.. I really don't care and Im not wasting any energy on if it is or isn't, but I know Trend Setter Exploits these conditions. Again this is a small portion of Trend Setter Level 3 LAY LOW Play, as I can't give away the FARM right? But will give back part of TS Play to the Craps Community. As my wife (she is an NLP Life Coach), would ask me, in what way are you in Contribution. Getting me to think and hold myself accountable, to be Outward Focused First and foremost.
So again keep going till Picked off and even if we LOSE to a 4 at any point, No biggie, why, bc of the recovery of getting that BET that I lost back. This around 97% WIN Rate, to get back that Loss on the Lay Low Play. So, do i really lose this bet? Yes and No, as only 3% of the time, but can't give that secret away, as it wouldn't be fair to those Clients who pay for Level 3..... But this is enough of a GOLDEN NUGGET to generate you guys some Cabbage for upcoming 2015 year along with my 6/8 play (gave a week ago, with full detail example to come) that i received personal emails and PMS of Crapsters giving me their thanks as their killing it....
So now advance to L2 of Prior 3 tier run. So ...
$330/150/-7/10 WIN Advance full press to L2 and $450/225/-11/-15 Win, match L2 for L3 play $450/225/-11/-15, Win this and up $600 more -minus $69 ... for a net of $531 or 10.25 units for a net of 29 units.
ok, We will stop there....VDC's Trend Setter 4 Tier Lay Low 4&10 and 3 Tier 5,6,8,&9 Lay Low is enough info here to Generate a Nice piece of Profit for you all moving Forward.
Good Luck to you and keep me posted on How it performs for you. And Happy New Year to all. May 2015 bring you Health, Happiness, Joy and prosperity to everyone here at APC forum
Using my experiment set/shot/delivery from SR1, I fired off BTB 4 pointers (different tables) ...Damn it, could not Land the 5th, both times...Repeaters... Yes 250:1 x two 4pt fire winners is a nice NYE gift and i am eternally Grateful don't get me wrong, but had to many repeaters for points. Tried my 180* reversal trick on come out, but kept getting the 6, lmao. Needed 5 and 10 on one of 4 pointers and 5 and 9 on the other. But, I took advantage of a Lost 4 (92 rolls in between the 4 that rolled). and I laid the piss out of it, using my 4 Tiered Positive progression. So TY Craps Gods for blessing me with two 4 Pointers.
Here is my Lost # progression. This is part of Trend Setter Level 3 Lay Low a from my Level 3. I won't give the triggers I use for when i enter and exit and Pause, bc it would not be fair to those who PAID for Level 3. But here is my progression. Your triggers can be your triggers, the KEY is maximizing the RUN with minimal risk.
Trend Setter Craps Level 3 LAY LOW Progression:
This is for a $500 buy in/10 units or $50 unit:( I play 2 LEVELS of Trend Setter, so i buy in for $1000and $1500 for 3 Levels.
Risk is 2 units: Bet/Win/Vig/Hop HW point on CO roll/
1) Bet 100/50/-2 to win 50 full press 150/75/-4 full press 220/110/-6/-7. At this point your 2 unit risk (assuming $50 unit) has paid $50,75 and 110 payout, totaling $235 less the 2,4 and 6 Vig for a net of $223. Once it reaches 3rd Level I hop 2/2 h4 for $7, so net is actually $218 or roughly 4.25 units. This is spot I want to be in bc my 4th Tiered is a match of 3rd Tier play. This way I still am ahead if i get picked off. So $220/110 and wham, another 7 out winner. Now I'm up around $315 or 6.25 units for my 2 unit risk.
So do you quit now? Up around 6.25 units. NOPE. You restart LAY LOW Play at 2nd level entry of what 4 tiers was, but reduce to 3 Progressions instead of four as our window of safety is reduced I.E... $150/$75/-4 win advance full press to $220/110/-6/-7 (use Hop H4 here) Win Now repeat L2 play so $220/110/-6-7. Win this. Now this produces 75/110/110 less -30, for a net for these 3 of $295-30 $265 or 4.75 units. Thats 7 straight sevens w/out a 4 being rolled on Co or point cycle, for a win of around 11 units.
Do you stop here? NOPE, restart at 2nd Level of 2nd run... Its important to know, during my 15 year research on this is this. More times than not the 4 appears on the CO roll more than the Point cycle when it does decide to return. Hence the reason for the HOP at the stage I decide to use it.
So $220/110/-6/-7 Win and go full press for $330/150/-7-10 (this is where I Hop now H4 for $10 for a $300 win. Win this here, so L3 now repeats the L2. So $330/150/-7/-10 I won this 3 tier and my net is $410 minus -47 and a +$363 or 7.25 units. Now collecting 18.25 units.
Again keep going, is this a coincidence or are these Biased Dice not producing a 3-1/1-3 or 2-2 which should occur every 12 rolls.. I really don't care and Im not wasting any energy on if it is or isn't, but I know Trend Setter Exploits these conditions. Again this is a small portion of Trend Setter Level 3 LAY LOW Play, as I can't give away the FARM right? But will give back part of TS Play to the Craps Community. As my wife (she is an NLP Life Coach), would ask me, in what way are you in Contribution. Getting me to think and hold myself accountable, to be Outward Focused First and foremost.
So again keep going till Picked off and even if we LOSE to a 4 at any point, No biggie, why, bc of the recovery of getting that BET that I lost back. This around 97% WIN Rate, to get back that Loss on the Lay Low Play. So, do i really lose this bet? Yes and No, as only 3% of the time, but can't give that secret away, as it wouldn't be fair to those Clients who pay for Level 3..... But this is enough of a GOLDEN NUGGET to generate you guys some Cabbage for upcoming 2015 year along with my 6/8 play (gave a week ago, with full detail example to come) that i received personal emails and PMS of Crapsters giving me their thanks as their killing it....
So now advance to L2 of Prior 3 tier run. So ...
$330/150/-7/10 WIN Advance full press to L2 and $450/225/-11/-15 Win, match L2 for L3 play $450/225/-11/-15, Win this and up $600 more -minus $69 ... for a net of $531 or 10.25 units for a net of 29 units.
ok, We will stop there....VDC's Trend Setter 4 Tier Lay Low 4&10 and 3 Tier 5,6,8,&9 Lay Low is enough info here to Generate a Nice piece of Profit for you all moving Forward.
Good Luck to you and keep me posted on How it performs for you. And Happy New Year to all. May 2015 bring you Health, Happiness, Joy and prosperity to everyone here at APC forum
-
London Shooter
- Posts: 2590
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:15 am
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
well reading that didn't help my New Year hangover one bit 
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
London Shooter wrote:well reading that didn't help my New Year hangover one bit
Thought i detailed each step pretty clear... Time to stop drinking LS or wait tip fully sober with a nice hot cup of Joe.
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Below is Come Out Roll, World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 1000 rolls
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
The Last number in Row is +/- over or under probability for those 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
3: 1-2: (28) 2-1 (43) (71) (55.6) +16.5
4: 1-3 (25) 3-1 (36) 2-2 (27) (88) (83.3) +4.7
5: 1-4 (29) 4-1 (31) 2-3 (26) and 3-2 (25) (111) (111.1) +0
6: 1-5 (32) 5-1 (24) 2-4 (27) 4-2 (19) 3-3 (21) (123) (138.9) -15.8
7: 1-6 (22) 6-1 (24) 2-5 (26) 5-2 (37) 3-4 (34) 4-3 (32) (175) (166.7) +9.3
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (32) 3-5 (25) 5-3 (26) 4-4 (24) (136) (138.8) -2.8
9: 3-6 (21) 6-3 (32) 4-5 (30) 5-4 (24) (107) (111.1) -4.1
10: 4-6 (23) 6-4 (27) 5-5 (22) (72) (83.3) -11.3
11: 5-6 (36) 6-5 (21) (57) (55.6) +1.4
12: 6-6 (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 36.3 % on CO Roll Thru 1000 Rolls Only
MP, I doubled check the numbers, had a typo on 5 and 9 was off on those two. Its fixed now. But came after your did your charts... sorry... Should total 1000 now.. Don't think a few #'s made that much of a difference over this wide span...
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
The Last number in Row is +/- over or under probability for those 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
3: 1-2: (28) 2-1 (43) (71) (55.6) +16.5
4: 1-3 (25) 3-1 (36) 2-2 (27) (88) (83.3) +4.7
5: 1-4 (29) 4-1 (31) 2-3 (26) and 3-2 (25) (111) (111.1) +0
6: 1-5 (32) 5-1 (24) 2-4 (27) 4-2 (19) 3-3 (21) (123) (138.9) -15.8
7: 1-6 (22) 6-1 (24) 2-5 (26) 5-2 (37) 3-4 (34) 4-3 (32) (175) (166.7) +9.3
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (32) 3-5 (25) 5-3 (26) 4-4 (24) (136) (138.8) -2.8
9: 3-6 (21) 6-3 (32) 4-5 (30) 5-4 (24) (107) (111.1) -4.1
10: 4-6 (23) 6-4 (27) 5-5 (22) (72) (83.3) -11.3
11: 5-6 (36) 6-5 (21) (57) (55.6) +1.4
12: 6-6 (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 36.3 % on CO Roll Thru 1000 Rolls Only
MP, I doubled check the numbers, had a typo on 5 and 9 was off on those two. Its fixed now. But came after your did your charts... sorry... Should total 1000 now.. Don't think a few #'s made that much of a difference over this wide span...
Last edited by VegasDiceController on Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:50 am, edited 9 times in total.
-
Mad Professor
- Posts: 1830
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:15 pm
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
VegasDiceController wrote:Below is Come Out Roll, World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (30) (30) (22.2)
3: 1-2: (28) 2-1 (43) (71) (44.4)
4: 1-3 (25) 3-1 (36) 2-2 (27) (88) (66.7)
5: 1-4 (29) 4-1 (31) 2-3 (26) and 3-2 (24) (110) (88.9)
6: 1-5 (32) 5-1 (24) 2-4 (27) 4-2 (19) 3-3 (21) (123) (111.1)
7: 1-6 (22) 6-1 (24) 2-5 (26) 5-2 (37) 3-4 (34) 4-3 (32) (175) (133.3)
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (32) 3-5 (25) 5-3 (26) 4-4 (24) (136) (111.1)
9: 3-6 (21) 6-3 (33) 4-5 (30) 5-4 (23) (117) (88.9)
10: 4-6 (23) 6-4 (27) 5-5 (22) (72) (66.7)
11: 5-6 (36) 6-5 (21) (57) (44.4)
12: 6-6 (30) (30) (22.2)
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 35.7 % on CO Roll Thru 1000 Rolls Only
Ill double check numbers in AM and correct any typos...
Hi VDC,
I ran your most-recent set of Lay-centric numbers. The charted-results are HERE.
MP
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
Below is final 1000 roll data of Point Cycle Set.
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
Below is Point Cycle roll data of 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (38) 38 (27.78) +10.2
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62 (55.56) +6.4
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81 (83.33) -2.3
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125 (111.11) +13.9
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141 (138.89) +5.1
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116 (166.67) +50.7
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142 (138.89) +3.1
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121 (111.11) +9.9
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93 (83.33) +9.7
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62 (55.56) +6.4
12: 6-6 (19) 19 (27.78) +0
-------------------
SRR for these 1000 Rolls was 8.62
Below is Final Data of Come Out Roll, World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 1000 rolls
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
The Last number in Row is +/- over or under probability for those 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
3: 1-2: (28) 2-1 (43) (71) (55.6) +16.5
4: 1-3 (25) 3-1 (36) 2-2 (27) (88) (83.3) +4.7
5: 1-4 (29) 4-1 (31) 2-3 (26) and 3-2 (25) (111) (111.1) +0
6: 1-5 (32) 5-1 (24) 2-4 (27) 4-2 (19) 3-3 (21) (123) (138.9) -15.8
7: 1-6 (22) 6-1 (24) 2-5 (26) 5-2 (37) 3-4 (34) 4-3 (32) (175) (166.7) +9.3
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (32) 3-5 (25) 5-3 (26) 4-4 (24) (136) (138.8) -2.8
9: 3-6 (21) 6-3 (32) 4-5 (30) 5-4 (24) (107) (111.1) -4.1
10: 4-6 (23) 6-4 (27) 5-5 (22) (72) (83.3) -11.3
11: 5-6 (36) 6-5 (21) (57) (55.6) +1.4
12: 6-6 (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 36.3 % on CO Roll Thru 1000 Rolls Only
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
Below is Point Cycle roll data of 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (38) 38 (27.78) +10.2
3: 1-2: (26) 2-1 (36) 62 (55.56) +6.4
4: 1-3 (16). 3-1 (35) 2-2 (30) 81 (83.33) -2.3
5: 1-4 (32) 4-1 (34) 2-3 (25) and 3-2 (34) 125 (111.11) +13.9
6: 1-5 (29) 5-1 (25) 2-4 (25) 4-2 (31) 3-3 (31) 141 (138.89) +5.1
7: 1-6 (12) 6-1 (27) 2-5 (17) 5-2 (25) 3-4 (26) 4-3 (9) 116 (166.67) +50.7
8: 2-6 (23) 6-2 (36) 3-5 (29) 5-3 (29) 4-4 (25) 142 (138.89) +3.1
9: 3-6 (23) 6-3 (30) 4-5 (38) 5-4 (30) 121 (111.11) +9.9
10: 4-6 (24) 6-4 (34) 5-5 (35) 93 (83.33) +9.7
11: 5-6 (30) 6-5 (32) 62 (55.56) +6.4
12: 6-6 (19) 19 (27.78) +0
-------------------
SRR for these 1000 Rolls was 8.62
Below is Final Data of Come Out Roll, World Set (2.3.7.11.12) Roll data thru only 1000 rolls
Probability is in RED:
My Total Rolls for that number in Blue
The Last number in Row is +/- over or under probability for those 1000 rolls
2: 1-1: (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
3: 1-2: (28) 2-1 (43) (71) (55.6) +16.5
4: 1-3 (25) 3-1 (36) 2-2 (27) (88) (83.3) +4.7
5: 1-4 (29) 4-1 (31) 2-3 (26) and 3-2 (25) (111) (111.1) +0
6: 1-5 (32) 5-1 (24) 2-4 (27) 4-2 (19) 3-3 (21) (123) (138.9) -15.8
7: 1-6 (22) 6-1 (24) 2-5 (26) 5-2 (37) 3-4 (34) 4-3 (32) (175) (166.7) +9.3
8: 2-6 (29) 6-2 (32) 3-5 (25) 5-3 (26) 4-4 (24) (136) (138.8) -2.8
9: 3-6 (21) 6-3 (32) 4-5 (30) 5-4 (24) (107) (111.1) -4.1
10: 4-6 (23) 6-4 (27) 5-5 (22) (72) (83.3) -11.3
11: 5-6 (36) 6-5 (21) (57) (55.6) +1.4
12: 6-6 (30) (30) (27.8) +2.2
---------------------
Come Out (World Set 2.3.7.11.12) to Produce 36.3 % on CO Roll Thru 1000 Rolls Only
-
VegasDiceController
Re: MP Please: betting Strat for ATS & 1 Hit ISR
MP had a mistake on 2 numbers i had fixed. Don't think it changes things much. It looks as if a LAY 10 (-11) under probability would have an edge or even a Lay 6 play at (-16) under probability. Then take out 1 dice combo and HOP 3-3 hard 6 to cover Lay bet expense. I.E. Lay 6 for 150/125 vig $6. Hop 3-3 for $5, this is 150 and down or $155 and down depending where you play. Only 4 of 36 dice combos can take me down. Try to throw a 7 on CO roll. Question remains is true ROR. Risk on reward in this matchup, compared to say almost same risk using Lay $30 on each of 4,5,6,8,9,10 for $180 output with $4 VIG, for $184 output to win 120-2, $118. Almost the same WIN, but my risk is only truly $31 as opposed to $161 with a Lay 6 bet/VIG/Hop expense to come out roll if lost to an easy 6 5-1/4-2.
This is a good question for the Wizards Board as one of the MATH guru's would spit it out in 5 seconds. I have an idea but i think I'm wrong. Anyone want to fire the true ROR Risk on Reward with this. We know the reward is $114 on Laying the 6/VIG/HW bet. and the Reward is $118 for Laying the back wall. I question the what if as well? What if a HORN # shows, this changes the risk as you have to re up the HOP bet $5. Maybe add $2 for a C&E, don't know. Just to keep the math right with No what ifs???
Anyone?
Also, I did this set last night and on my last roll, after going 7,7, i fired a H6 as my point. So in this example, i would of got 2 lay wins and got back 6 money for a small loss of around $15 after dust settled.
This is a good question for the Wizards Board as one of the MATH guru's would spit it out in 5 seconds. I have an idea but i think I'm wrong. Anyone want to fire the true ROR Risk on Reward with this. We know the reward is $114 on Laying the 6/VIG/HW bet. and the Reward is $118 for Laying the back wall. I question the what if as well? What if a HORN # shows, this changes the risk as you have to re up the HOP bet $5. Maybe add $2 for a C&E, don't know. Just to keep the math right with No what ifs???
Anyone?
Also, I did this set last night and on my last roll, after going 7,7, i fired a H6 as my point. So in this example, i would of got 2 lay wins and got back 6 money for a small loss of around $15 after dust settled.