Guys, I have been thinking about this and want your opinion. On DIs only I have been thinking about this progression for the 6 and 8 only. First hit press then from then on take and press. It seems to give you a jump start and even if you get two hits on a number you in pretty good shape. I seam to look for long rolls and they are not as plentiful as I would like so I would like to maximize my profits. Last weekend I tried the dp and placing the 6 and 8 but with poor results. I don't like to bet on most shooters and I like to see how they roll first. It helps me to see a trip around the table. I have had good luck with 50$ no 4 or 10. I used to be a big fan of the 5 count but I have since stopped using it because of poor results and I hate come bets. If I see a shooter that sets dice and he hits a 6 or 8 on the co I place the point for 12 and the twin for 6. depending on how deep my stack is I might take down after one hit also if someone gets on a good roll and I press a couple times I usually regress to starting point and press up sorry im rambling still trying to get a good strategy
hot head
New Look at my betting
Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater
Re: New Look at my betting
Couple of things I'd like clarified here. Are you only pressing the number that hits? Because if so, you're not in a profit position after collecting that first one. Let me give you an example using a couple of my moves that involve early presses.
$18 six and eight
First hit on either - drop $3 and press the number that hits to $42 - I now have taken $39 our of my rack to play and have $60 on the table.
Now let's say I get another hit on the same number - let's say it's the six. It pays $49. Same bet. I have a $10 profit made for these two decisions.
But what if the other number in the pair rolled next - the eight. You have $18 on it. Do you press the first hit on it or do you take the payoff? If you take it you lock up $21 and reduce your exposure to your overall action. This is my play, by the way. But you can drop $3 and press it to $42 as well and have $84 action on the table for a $42 investment. Plus you have ten ways to win versus six ways to lose. So the temptation is there to press the first hit on both numbers. So what do you do?
OR do you do what I USED to do all of the time. $18 each on the six and eight. First hit on either drop $3 on top of the payoff and press both numbers to $30 each. Now you have $39 at risk to win $35 with ten ways to win versus six ways to lose. Sounds like a good play, but if you collect that $35 on the next hit you still don't have a profit, which means - for my money - you need to take a regression at that point - which I don't necessarily want to do if I want to make a substantial profit on your hand.
Now, look back at what I did on that hand you tossed the other day with . . . what was it? Fourteen eights in one hand? I power pressed the first hit - then took two and pressed one - took two and pressed one - took two and pressed one. The point in taking two is that you're always locking up 2/3 of your wins that way. You're taking money off the table.
Now, maybe the problem is I'm starting at too high of a level for you at $18 each, and I understand that entirely. I got comfortable playing $18 on the six and eight back in the day when my main play was $66 inside for one hit - then regress to $22 inside. Then take two - press one, take two - press one - yata yata yata.
My pal Roadrunner always started everybody off with a $12 six and eight. On the first hit he'd press both to $18 each and collect $2. Then on the next hit on either he'd collect $21 - same bet. SO on the second hit he'd have $23 off the table with $1 at risk and $36 in action. From there he's press individual numbers as they rolled - often up a unit.
Of course, you could always do a simple regression. $12 six and eight. First his - regress to $6 six and eight and lock up $14. Now you only have $2 exposure and you have $14 in the rack. Next hit - same bet. Next hit - press. And you're off to the races.
In the end you're going to have to decide what's right for you from a bankroll standpoint and a sevens-tolerance standpoint. Not to worry. You've come a LONG way since we first started down this trail waaaay back when.
$18 six and eight
First hit on either - drop $3 and press the number that hits to $42 - I now have taken $39 our of my rack to play and have $60 on the table.
Now let's say I get another hit on the same number - let's say it's the six. It pays $49. Same bet. I have a $10 profit made for these two decisions.
But what if the other number in the pair rolled next - the eight. You have $18 on it. Do you press the first hit on it or do you take the payoff? If you take it you lock up $21 and reduce your exposure to your overall action. This is my play, by the way. But you can drop $3 and press it to $42 as well and have $84 action on the table for a $42 investment. Plus you have ten ways to win versus six ways to lose. So the temptation is there to press the first hit on both numbers. So what do you do?
OR do you do what I USED to do all of the time. $18 each on the six and eight. First hit on either drop $3 on top of the payoff and press both numbers to $30 each. Now you have $39 at risk to win $35 with ten ways to win versus six ways to lose. Sounds like a good play, but if you collect that $35 on the next hit you still don't have a profit, which means - for my money - you need to take a regression at that point - which I don't necessarily want to do if I want to make a substantial profit on your hand.
Now, look back at what I did on that hand you tossed the other day with . . . what was it? Fourteen eights in one hand? I power pressed the first hit - then took two and pressed one - took two and pressed one - took two and pressed one. The point in taking two is that you're always locking up 2/3 of your wins that way. You're taking money off the table.
Now, maybe the problem is I'm starting at too high of a level for you at $18 each, and I understand that entirely. I got comfortable playing $18 on the six and eight back in the day when my main play was $66 inside for one hit - then regress to $22 inside. Then take two - press one, take two - press one - yata yata yata.
My pal Roadrunner always started everybody off with a $12 six and eight. On the first hit he'd press both to $18 each and collect $2. Then on the next hit on either he'd collect $21 - same bet. SO on the second hit he'd have $23 off the table with $1 at risk and $36 in action. From there he's press individual numbers as they rolled - often up a unit.
Of course, you could always do a simple regression. $12 six and eight. First his - regress to $6 six and eight and lock up $14. Now you only have $2 exposure and you have $14 in the rack. Next hit - same bet. Next hit - press. And you're off to the races.
In the end you're going to have to decide what's right for you from a bankroll standpoint and a sevens-tolerance standpoint. Not to worry. You've come a LONG way since we first started down this trail waaaay back when.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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London Shooter
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Re: New Look at my betting
I like two of these plays here, one for each side of the pond.
England:
£12 each on 6&8 first hit press both to £18 and collect £2, then up a unit on each hit thereafter.
USA:
$18 each on 6&8, first hit drop the extra $3 and make the number that hits $42. Collect $50 for 1s and if the sister starts to appear then get that pressed up to $42 also, or collect £21s from the $18 sister and press up on 3rd of these hits to $42 also.
With £1 = $1.50 approx, I like the way either plays depending on what market I am in. 7s tolerance and bankroll exposure of both are right in the same ballpark.
England:
£12 each on 6&8 first hit press both to £18 and collect £2, then up a unit on each hit thereafter.
USA:
$18 each on 6&8, first hit drop the extra $3 and make the number that hits $42. Collect $50 for 1s and if the sister starts to appear then get that pressed up to $42 also, or collect £21s from the $18 sister and press up on 3rd of these hits to $42 also.
With £1 = $1.50 approx, I like the way either plays depending on what market I am in. 7s tolerance and bankroll exposure of both are right in the same ballpark.
Re: New Look at my betting
Hi skibum11. Good thoughts.
Most all of my theories on potential wagering strategies (for Do side) stem from the idea that regardless of what our average roll duration is: 1/6th, 1/8th, 1/12th= (SRR=1:6,1:8, 1:12 ... etc), with each passing toss we are 1/Xth closer to a 7 if we are a DO bettor. Because as we regrettably know the 7 takes our wagers when we lose.
With that being said, I'm a proponent that on each winning hit we must take profit and expose <=Initial Outlay Money risked to the 7, and should always treat a hand like it is going to be a "typical" or "average" hand.
My wagering thesis is that when we are winning or have increased our bankroll that "pressing" should occur mostly at the beginning of a shooters hand and the pressing is in the increased size of our bets that we initially place from the very beginning of that shooters hand. Although I do feel we should take advantage when that atypical or nonaverage hand starts to materialize by utilizing slight-slow pressing. We all know how to press/make money on long hands so we shouldn't worry too much about that because most of our hands typically wont make it past 12-15 anyway.
My thoughts(without knowing your session goals, bankroll, buyin, win/loss tolerance...etc) for your post above regarding 6/8 wagering on a shooter you perceive has above avg DI skill:
A) Wager equal amounts on the 6/8 (if shooters best two #s), and don't press or regress until you have received the 5th paying hit and then press one unit on the number that has hit the most and thereafter one unit on the hit# (or if shooter is hitting another particular # with greater-than-expectation # of hits then press our one unit increment out onto that # instead of the initial two wagers). Although the 7 wipes out two wagers at once we also have our friend "Mr. Variance" working for our two wagers as they battle the 7. Plus we always have the option to regress our dollars-at-risk or quit the hand or session when ahead.
B) More protective of bankroll but we also limit our winnings: Wager equal amounts on the 6/8 (if shooters best two #s), and "regress" the NONhit # one unit with each paying hit instead of pressing as this way we are still focusing more money on the paying #, limiting the number of hits required for profitzone, yet we are not exposing more than our initial outlay (unless the hand materializes into that long atypical one).
For example: If initial wager on 6/8 is $36/36 and the 6 hits we could regress the nonhit 8 so that our new posthit wager on the 6/8= $36/30. Then if 6 hits for second time our posthit wager looks like $36/24, so after only two hits and maybe 4-5 tosses we are holding $84 in winnings with $60 in action for a Net+$24, and then have all kinds of options available depending on our win goals, current session status, ...etc.
Thx for posting/ sharing one of your wagering strategies.
All the best,
Tgold
Most all of my theories on potential wagering strategies (for Do side) stem from the idea that regardless of what our average roll duration is: 1/6th, 1/8th, 1/12th= (SRR=1:6,1:8, 1:12 ... etc), with each passing toss we are 1/Xth closer to a 7 if we are a DO bettor. Because as we regrettably know the 7 takes our wagers when we lose.
With that being said, I'm a proponent that on each winning hit we must take profit and expose <=Initial Outlay Money risked to the 7, and should always treat a hand like it is going to be a "typical" or "average" hand.
My wagering thesis is that when we are winning or have increased our bankroll that "pressing" should occur mostly at the beginning of a shooters hand and the pressing is in the increased size of our bets that we initially place from the very beginning of that shooters hand. Although I do feel we should take advantage when that atypical or nonaverage hand starts to materialize by utilizing slight-slow pressing. We all know how to press/make money on long hands so we shouldn't worry too much about that because most of our hands typically wont make it past 12-15 anyway.
My thoughts(without knowing your session goals, bankroll, buyin, win/loss tolerance...etc) for your post above regarding 6/8 wagering on a shooter you perceive has above avg DI skill:
A) Wager equal amounts on the 6/8 (if shooters best two #s), and don't press or regress until you have received the 5th paying hit and then press one unit on the number that has hit the most and thereafter one unit on the hit# (or if shooter is hitting another particular # with greater-than-expectation # of hits then press our one unit increment out onto that # instead of the initial two wagers). Although the 7 wipes out two wagers at once we also have our friend "Mr. Variance" working for our two wagers as they battle the 7. Plus we always have the option to regress our dollars-at-risk or quit the hand or session when ahead.
B) More protective of bankroll but we also limit our winnings: Wager equal amounts on the 6/8 (if shooters best two #s), and "regress" the NONhit # one unit with each paying hit instead of pressing as this way we are still focusing more money on the paying #, limiting the number of hits required for profitzone, yet we are not exposing more than our initial outlay (unless the hand materializes into that long atypical one).
For example: If initial wager on 6/8 is $36/36 and the 6 hits we could regress the nonhit 8 so that our new posthit wager on the 6/8= $36/30. Then if 6 hits for second time our posthit wager looks like $36/24, so after only two hits and maybe 4-5 tosses we are holding $84 in winnings with $60 in action for a Net+$24, and then have all kinds of options available depending on our win goals, current session status, ...etc.
Thx for posting/ sharing one of your wagering strategies.
All the best,
Tgold
All the best,
Tgold
Tgold