Press Betting

[London Shooter]

This is turning into a great refresher thread into the various ways we can all go about our press moves.

[DanF]

Its a fun and pretty balanced play.

Bad runs are not so costy as good run boost you 300-400$ quick. Fun stuff.

With a good bunch of guys (3-4 skilled dice thrower) it's powerful! I haven't tuned it up right yet. I don't have 100% confidence on my throw yet. I seem to get 2 monster and a few medium hand per long session these days. Don't seem to get as many short hands as I used to lately. It takes some believing LOL.

[stratocasterman]

I just might go ahead and take the five and nine down. They haven't rolled yet and are behind the curve when it comes to catching up and getting pressed. I'd rather have the money in my rack at that point. I can always put them back up if they start to show.

I like this Heavy and really hadn't thought about it much. As I think about it now, when the SO comes, I am pissed about leaving money on the table (naturally)...especially when it's numbers who haven't paid rent! That is really a big turn around BR wise.

This is turning into a great refresher thread into the various ways we can all go about our press moves.

Agreed, I am getting great value from this LS!

With a good bunch of guys (3-4 skilled dice thrower) it's powerful!

I can only wish here. I very rarely, if ever, find someone else other than myself to bet on...and that might not be such a good thing to do too, at times. I'm getting better at knowing when I'm on or off.

[heavy]

I thought I'd bump this thread for the benefit of our newer members. Press betting. Let's take it to table max.

[heavy]

Once upon a time we had a forum member who routinely walked up to the table and bet $11,000 across. Beats the hell out of me why he didn't bet $12,000 across. Sure makes the math of splitting the bets up easier. Anyway, this guy would toss it out for one hit and down. Strange way to play. Reminds me of another friend . . . this one from my grade school days . . . who would go to Vegas with a gambling bankroll of $100. At some point on his trip he'd go to the roulette table and bet $100 on either red or black. Win or lose . . . that was his bet for the day.

[stratocasterman]

Once upon a time we had a forum member who routinely walked up to the table and bet $11,000 across. Beats the hell out of me why he didn't bet $12,000 across. Sure makes the math of splitting the bets up easier. Anyway, this guy would toss it out for one hit and down. Strange way to play.

Similar to SIA's One hit play huh? I have often wondered about just going ALL OUT on a couple of your best numbers from the start. Problem is it is all or nothing for that BR session.

This thread is about methods of press betting but, I will stray a bit with the following... If the AVERAGE roll is say eight tosses, does it make sense to get your bets paid for in the first three rolls? Then, full press all bets equally on the next three rolls. Then just sit back and collect until the SO?

OR...is the entire play of pressing betting all about getting to an extended (above average) roll and make some real $$$?

I see so many people at the tables that have NO betting strategy. Most just FULL PRESS every hit until the SO, which is usually in about five or six tosses. They NEVER win anything unless the hand goes into the teens or better. Well, that is SO rare in my neck of the woods I just can't figure what they are thinking.

[SHOOTITALL]

That fellow Heavy is speaking of would drive a shooter insane. He would only do it during a good roll, but rather than pull out chips he pulled out cash which had to be counted umteen times, he explain his bets and brought the game to a screeching halt for five minutes or so. This was a one roll bet. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[heavy]

Speaking of press betting, old SIA and I had a chance to play together at the El Dorado tonight and our pal 3dogs caught a huge hand. I played very conservatively. Got my eight up to $42 (starting at $12) with a point of six ($5 plus $25 odds). the six came home, then the shooter set the nine as the point. I dropped $6 and told the dealer to split the six and eight and make them look like $24 each. SIA nearly fell off his chair. Later, after working my eight up to $42 again, I stopped pressing and collected $50 for $1 three times. Then I regressed to $18 each again and started pressing in pairs. $18 six and eight became $30 six and eight. $30 six and eight became $48 six and eight. $48 six and eight became $78 six and eight. $78 eight paid $101 for $10 and make my action look like $18 each on the six and eight, locking up another $120. Yes, Heavy returned to the land of the regression. All the time thinking to myself "I should be collecting $500 for $10 on the eight right now. Still - a win is a win is a win.

[SHOOTITALL]

I know about whatta shudda coudda as we all do. But since we cannot know the outcome of the next roll, the insurance of raking small profits consistently to me outweighs the possible outcome of the next roll when you are set up to really rake in the cash but the inopportune ubiquitous SO lets you watch the dealer gleefully return his former chips to the stack thinking what was that bettor thinking? Did he think the hand would last forever? Now you are again right back where you started. A hand like 3dog had, happens about 1 in 200. It's those other 199 hands where you make or break a session. One really feels good when a hand ends and you made a profit. How many times have you seen a shooter have a really good roll, make his point and then P-SO and there goes all those presses. That was a very strong showing from our fearless leader that has the gonads to put out a weeks wages on the possibility of a monster return but took the sure road to success and still had a nice return. I was proud of him because he took the sure road to success.

[heavy]

I had another opportunity to do that six/eight progression/regression move this morning. Six and eight for $18 each. First hit drop $3 and go to $30 each. Second hit drop $1 and go to $48 each. Third hit drop $4 and go to $78 each. Fourth hit pays $101 for $10 - collect - then push six red chips out and tell the dealer to make the six and eight look like $18 each. Get six green chips in return. Power move on just four hits on the six/eight combo.

We also had a five number FIRE bet hit by JD from Tennessee this morning. I had $5 on it for a $1250 win. All in all - a good morning at the table. I'll start a separate thread for trip reports later tonight.

[stratocasterman]

and started pressing in pairs.

Pressing in pairs? Say it ain't so Heavy!

[heavy]

If it wasn't working so well this week I wouldn't be doing it.

[DarthNater]

I searched out this thread earlier as part of my efforts to align my Craps Analytics thread.

It's got a lot of good ideas, so bump-a-rama...... D.N8r

[Bentonck]

I have re-read this thread for the 10th time today I think. My first trip I took to Shreveport I was playing a huge regress. $320 accross, two hits and regress to $96 across. Limited success (let's read that as failure) .... I had too many PSO's or PPSO ... I was also tossing pre-practice rig and setting the V2 which, I have learned, is not my best set.

This time around I started out at $110 inside, took a hit on every number before pressing. On 3rd hit if a 4 or 10 had showed I placed it as well for $15 and then pressed to $25 - 50 (never made it past 50 but would have gone to 100, etc) .... I made a lot of money this trip but half of it was from 2 ATS hits I got one night and the next morning. Even taking that out, though, I would have made money. It seems to me looking back, though, that I made most of it on 4 huge rolls, 3 of mine and one other guys. The rest of the rolls I was giving back normally.

On the Randy Rollers I was placing $12 6&8 and normally a $25 DP bet just to be doing something while conserving bankroll but those dudes just kept hitting the sherriff and deputy on the come out and eventually I was just placing the 6&8. I put $300 in the back rack when I cashed in and this was my "Randy Roller" money. When it was gone I was out. I got lucky andy didn't wipe out this side pot though most of the time.

Now, I'm thinking I'm going to do $96 accross to start out, power press the 6 & 8, and follow heavy's press schedule above on 5&9. I can see me doing that. The only big ask on his 6 & 8 schedule is 180 -240 and 4200 - 9000 where you have to throw in $30 and $300, respectively. I think it might be difficult for me to do in a casino, but I'm sure wanting to find out! Again, I think I'm going to write down my presses and take it with me. This would be only on my own rolls, randies would still be $25 DP + $12 6&8 (thought I'm leaning towards $35 DP + $18 6&8 to power press them)

[DarthNater]

I have re-read this thread for the 10th time today I think. My first trip I took to Shreveport I was playing a huge regress. $320 accross, two hits and regress to $96 across. Limited success (let's read that as failure) .... I had too many PSO's or PPSO ... I was also tossing pre-practice rig and setting the V2 which, I have learned, is not my best set.

This time around I started out at $110 inside, took a hit on every number before pressing. On 3rd hit if a 4 or 10 had showed I placed it as well for $15 and then pressed to $25 - 50 (never made it past 50 but would have gone to 100, etc) .... I made a lot of money this trip but half of it was from 2 ATS hits I got one night and the next morning. Even taking that out, though, I would have made money. It seems to me looking back, though, that I made most of it on 4 huge rolls, 3 of mine and one other guys. The rest of the rolls I was giving back normally.

Bentonck,
Glad to see you are digging into it.

Thru your iterations and study, have you been able to find a "best set" ? I put that in quotes as IMHO I like a couple of "best sets" depending on what I'm trying to do. And more importantly when you're practicing with your "best set" are you studying what combinations appear frequently? For example when I'm tossing my V-3 mutant { 6-3 up, 4-5 facing } if I get a hard ten or hard four, it is because my left die was off axis. Which if it was a good toss, and landing, might imply that I had uneven grip pressure. While I'll gladly take the 4/10 payout, its an in game "alert" the I need to focus.

So once you narrow down your setting, understand what the dice are doing, that's a good start for any regression play.

D.N8r

[Bentonck]

N8r,
Since getting my table I have tried to spend at least an hour a day when I'm home (sometimes it's more like 3-4 hours until Mari comes and drags me out) and I'm usually working on my toss using the X6 set, for consistency in getting BT results.

I forgot to put my results on a pen drive from the weekend but for the first time, ever, I think, it was showing that the V3 would have given me about the same SRR as the X6. Normally the V3 is the worst. It's usually X6, then V2, then everything else is lower.

What I have found with the X6 is that I have a high degree of confidence that I can use it on the come out with a regression play. Mari and I have war gamed the thing a lot, and it's usually a stead winner for me if I use that $330 inside play down to $66 inside.....I am going to Tunica for Heavy's and Howard's deal this week and plan on giving the $330 WOTCO down to $66 inside play a good run. If I end up being as consistent with it at the casino as I am at home, I'll grow it to the $550 ... but on this trip I'm not going to go up regardless of results...just going to play the $330 ... if things are going swimmingly I might regress to $110 inside instead of $66 which basically costs $5 after a hit so it's not a huge step.

You asked about dice, though, and not betting so I'm just going to keep rocking my X6 set for now until I get a more practice. Once I find something that works, I'm hesitant to change, if it ain't broke.... over time, if I can go to a mutant or another set with a huge degree of probability that it will work better I'll try it but for now the X6 is consistently giving me an SRR > 6.5 and my confidence is high with it. On my established books or rolls (pre-table on the practice table) it shows mutants that do better, but nothing that is as consistent. With the table now, I'll wait until I get 10 books of rolls or so and then start poring through the data......that's the bad thing with data, you can over-analyze. I am doing very well with my toss and have found consistent profits betting my own hand...

I do get frustrated when I am rolling really well and start going out 6-1, 1-6, 6-1, 6-1 and watching those double pitches kill me. Looking at BT, though, even if I flip a die I'm going to hit it just as much on a single-pitch so as of yet I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. If Heavy wants to mess with my head he'll probably suggest I try some mutant....if I can do better, great, but I would be harder to convince now than I was before

[heavy]

This one might interest you. It's a Come Bet press strategy developed and used very successfully by the late Rappin' Captain:

The Rappin' Captain (no relation to Scoblete's pseudo-fictitious Captain) was a proponent of what he called Exponential Betting. It's basically a Pass/Come strategy designed to be played on 20X - 100X odds games - with a Free Odds progressive betting schedule attached. For those of you who come late to the forum - here's a recap of the strategy, more or less in Sid's own words (edited for readability). Note that the Rappin' Captain played at the Green Chip level, so a base Pass Line with Odds bet on the even numbers would be $25 Pass Line plus $125 odds. On Odd Numbers the Free Odds bet would be at $120.

Here are the basic rules to follow when playing a Free Odds Exponential Betting Strategy.

Rule #1. Make a Pass Line or Come bet on every roll of the dice. This bet gives up one of the lowest house edges. If you do not make this bet you are not getting paid on the 7 or 11. These natural wins - even on a loss - reduce the house edge to 1.4%.

Rule # 2. Do NOT take odds until the second number has been established. By doing this you are taking advantage of the 2/3 disadvantage the player has on the first roll of the dice. A second roll seven would result in a draw or push in this case. By placing any other bets before this you are heading for ruin much faster and giving up a much higher house edge.

Rule # 3. When the second number has been established take 5 times odds on BOTH of the numbers you have established and every number rolled after that.

Rule #4. After each repeater press your bet by no more than 20% to 25% of the previous bet. For example - $25 oddswould be pressed to $30. This way you are taking moneys off the table and putting it in your rack.

Rule #5. Always work with four or more established numbers. It takes at least two established numbers to overcome the six ways to make a 7. Remember, there are 6 ways to make a 7 for a loss. You might establish the four and nine as Come bet points on your second and third tosses. There are four ways to make a nine and three ways to make a four, for a total of 7 ways to win. So you have 7 ways to win versus 6 ways to lose. That sounds good, but typically you will need three to four repeaters to have a winning game. In a worst case scenario, you may have all six box numbers established as points without a repeater. You have huge exposure at this point. However, you'll have 24 ways to win versus 6 ways to lose, for a 4 to 1 win ratio. Just remember that one 7 wipes out the other six numbers.

Betting Progression: Here is how the betting should go. After the first repeater, press the repeating number, and only the repeating number, to 6 times odds. After the second repeater of the same number, and only the repeating number, press to 8 times odds. After the third repeater of the same number, and only the repeating number, press to 11 times odds. After the forth repeater of the same number, and only the repeating number, press to 15 times odds. After the fifth repeater of the same number, and only the repeating number, press to 20 times odds. Remain at 20 times oddsuntil the hand ends.

As you can see for example, on the 6 and 8 worse case scenario, you will get paid on the first hit, if starting with a $25 pass or come bet with 5 times odds, $150 with $25 flat or $175 and pressing it by only $25 or going to 6 times odds you are breaking even if you don't hit a second time. But if you hit a second time you get paid $205 and pressing $50 or to 8 times odds and you racking $155. If you hit a third time you get paid $265 and pressing $75 or to 11 times odds and you racking another $190 for a total of $345. If you hit a forth time you get paid $355 and pressing $100 or to 15 times oddsand you racking another $255 for a total of $600. You are just about doubling your payoff every time you have a hit.


So there you have it. Adapted for a $5 game the strategy would look like this on even numbers:

$5 PL or Come. $25 odds.
First Repeater - press to $30 odds
Second Repeater - press to $40 odds
Third Repeater - press to $55 odds
Four Repeater - press to $100 odds

At the $10 level it would look like this:

$10 PL or Come. $50 odds.
First Repeater - press to $60 odds.
Second Repeater - press to $80 odds.
Third Repeater - press to $110 odds.
Fourth Repeater - press to $200 odds.

For my own edification I've taken this out to the 100X odds level. We'll assume we have $200 odds working at the $10 base bet level.

Fifth Repeater - $350 odds.
Sixth Repeater - $440 odds.
Seventh Repeater - $575 odds.
Eighth Repeater - $760 odds.
Ninth Repeater - $1000 odds.

Nine repeaters to get to $1000 odds.

Now, for the sake of comparison, I'll look at a betting progression on the six or eight based on RC's initial starting bet on a $10 game of $60.

$60 - first hit regress to $42 and lock up $70 win plus $28 from regression. $98 off the table. $42 bet is "paid for" with zero exposure.

Second hit at $42 pays $50 for $1 - same bet - lock up $49. $147 in the rack.

Third hit pays $42 - press to $90 - lock up $1 - $148 in the rack.

Fourth hit pays $105 - toke $5 - lock up $100 - $248 in the rack.

Fifth hit pays $105 - press to $180 - lock up $15 - $263 in the rack.

Sixth hit pays $210 - lock it up - $473 profit in the rack.

Seventh hit pays $210 - drop $30 and press to $420. $443 profit in the rack.

Eighth hit pays $500 for $10 - lock it up. $933 profit in the rack.

Ninth hit pays $500 for $10 - press to $900. $10 change gets locked up. $944 profit in the rack.

Which play makes more sense? RC's play has the lower house edge by a long shot. He also has a better chance of hitting a repeater early as I tend to only Place bet the six and eight on other shooters. Honestly, I haven't taken the time to go through RC's ten dollar play from repeater one all the way up through repeater nine to see how much money he'd have off the table at that point. I'm confident from having seen his rack of green and black through the years that it would be a lot.

[220Inside]

You missed the progression to 15x odds on the 4th repeaters and went right to the 20x level.

$5 PL or Come:
Fourth repeater: $75 odds
Fifth repeater: $100 odds

$10 PL or Come:
Fourth repeater: $150 odds
Fifth repeater: $200 odds

[DanF]

Fun to look up old posts and learn from them.

I developed my game a lot this year. But I have to say despite bad luck being part of it...I have been far less profitable and have to get back to see what has worked better and why. Most definitive change I made was stopping the early spread and working press betting up. I need to look this up.