Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

London,
So you start the DC after 2 ATS numbers are marked, i.e. at the 40% mark. Do you have a trigger for table temperature, as seems if its a warm table, you could get cancelled out. What kind of results are you seeing? D.N8r

I find it intriguing that this thread progressed from combing the ATS with Come betting to the ATS with Don't Come betting. I'm liking the DC idea much better.

We like to keep you riveted, Heavy.....

It's kinda of the same idea as laying the fifth or sixth Fire Bet point, without waiting around for all those pesky repeating points and presses; i.e. its quicker to a decision, too - than the Fire. How about this for a play - go $5 small & $5 tall on the ATS, with $15 on the PL for the come-out & a $3 any craps. Then once there's a point: decide when to start the DC(s), or after there are at 2 or 3 of the 5 numbers made - lay the other 2, and/or a couple of $15 DCs. If they make the point, get paid on the line, don't replace. The key is will there be repeaters while setting up the DCs? Then decide what to do next after that made point.....frankly if there are repeating numbers and making a point - then my lays come down - sounds warm to me. So we are back to my earlier question of how do we surmise table temperature?

D.N8r

This may look like an attempt to answer my own question from above; as just stumbled on this from the Mad Professor's "Dodging Bullets as a Darksider" article, to wit:

What is the Temperature?

The game of craps is very streaky:
Ø The dice are “red hot” about 4% of the time.
Ø The dice are “ice cold” about 6% of the time.
Ø The table “trends warm” about 20% of the time.
Ø The table “trends cool” about 30% of the time.
Ø The tables are “CHOPPY” about 40% of the time.

That's good perspective, but short of toe dangling, I guess we just need to watch & assess, D

This is kind of off topic but a couple years ago I was playing at the casino with the same name as where the Olympic's are going to be this summer. There was a guy at the end that was only playing a dollar on the fire bet every once in a while so he could get a free beer every time the server came around.

On his third wager I made five to the fire and he received a $247.00 profit and 2 beers for a $3.00 investment as it was the third time he had made a fire bet. I knew it was his third bet because the pit critter made sure everyone in the pit knew. For some people it's all about timing.

I plan on hedging my ATS the next trip by laying the last number if the opportunity presents itself. The vast majority of the time though the 2 or 12 are the numbers I need to fill them out. If I'm tossing horn numbers that usually means my toss is not 100% healthy.

Saw some hedging on the ATS this trip. About three times and two of them the hedge didn't win.

Noah

DartNater - I guess we all have different measurements for judging a table's temperature. Heavy talks about losing to two or maybe three consecutive shooters on the positive side and then he is ready to play the dont's. I guess others may well start off on the don'ts and never consider the table gets warm enough to either stop betting or move to the other side. Regardless, we all know many times when the table goes a full lap and nobody makes a pass, but even that may not be the dont's dream it seems if the 7s and 11s are coming at the wrong time for your DPs and DCs.

I guess my own play on DCs when two numbers have been hit on my ATS small is working about as well as expected ie I am not losing a great deal, sometimes get a nice pay off and it keeps my play at a reasonably low level and my head in the game.

With a bet on the ATS and a couple of DCs established things may just end up cancelling each other out as you say. The hand progresses, one DC gets knocked off, the ATS numbers keep accumulating, then the 7s comes when you need the 2 and 12. You win your second DC but lose your ATS money.

Another thing to consider as part of this ATS with DC play is if the shooter does go on a bit of a run and makes a pass after say 5 or 6 rolls, then if you have DCs up it is giving you 7 out protection on the come-out which can be a nice feeling. Furthermore, if the ATS is progressing very well, you can then contemplate a passline bet to give extra 7 protection and also at this stage it could be that you consider one of those transition moves Heavy talks about. You can move from DCs to passline, to placing the 6&8 and progress from there. If the shooter keeps rolling it can be a very good transition move and of course the more he/she rolls, the more chance you have of hitting something on the ATS.

One more thing. I often play only one side of the ATS. How about this idea - if you are playing positively with passline and/or come bets then play the small only. Craps numbers won't feel as bad if they are 2s and 3s.

The flip side is if you want to play the other side of the game, then play the tall only. Then you have 2s and 3s giving you instant money, an 11 is a bit less painful than normal, a 12 is a wash on your line bet and great for the tall and the only numbers you don't get something out of would be the 4,5 and 6 given that any 8,9, or 10 makes a contribution to your all bet.

Just thinking aloud about interesting combinations..........

London,
Thanks for the detailed reply.
Agree with your temperature overlook, there's an alchemy worth respecting and it'll keep your attention in the game. I like the idea of hedging it while trying to win both ways but am thinking for a $1 game, vice your 1 pound game, that I'd go both small and tall and then focus on the one that gets to 3 or 4 of the five first. Though I think since a come-out 7 knocks down the ATS, that you need to be on PL, versus a DP; as I've noticed that 2-3 comeout sevens can drain off a lot of ATS chips; you can then DC later. I'll wargame it as I like the transition aspect, especially on a choppy table; where if you can get a lot of pushes with an occasional win mixed in while waiting to shoot.

D.N8r