Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

i have played where i only layed odds against the 4 & 10. i read on this forum that recovering from a shooter that picks off your 4 or 10 is too hard to recover from. is this why on daves system he does not lay odds against 4 & 10. i would appreciate some feed back on this thanks, advdel77

Step away from the lay on the 4 and 10. Your financial health depends on it.

Good Luck

what about laying odds on 5,6,8,9. or just flat bet from the donts.advdel77

I have lost more $ Laying the 4 n 10 than any other single bet. I did it a lot, and still do. It's not hard to recover from, just Parley your next winning outcome.
Hard 4 or 10 is hedging the hedge.

Make sure you have the bankroll as well if you go this way. Golfer know of what he speaks.

But to get back to your question - yes, that's why Dave's System does not include laying against the four or ten. Dave's opinion is that recovery from a bet that gets knocked off is just too tough. Me? I lay against every number I get established on. Sometimes I go down in flames. Sometimes I get the bases loaded and the seven scores a home run for me.

Advel, do you chart the table in any way while there? Laying against the 4/10 could become very profitable if done right. Like any number its bc a bad lay once it gets picked off. Like H says, sometimes you get set up on 4-6 dc and wham the 7 appears and like he said, its a HR. Sometimes one gets picked right off as soon as it bc a DC, next roll repeater. Damn hate when that happens.

Personally when i go up on a Lay, Im going into a positive progression after. I am attacking that lay in clumps.

Years ago there was much talk on this forum about Dave's System - a systematic approach to playing the Don'ts used by a high roller named Dave in the Chicago area. Dave was, from all reports, so successful playing the Don'ts with his strategy that he was banned from playing at one Chicago casino - something that's basically unheard of at craps.

Dave's Systems had many elements. He had rules for the Four and Ten, for example. Any DP or DC that traveled to the 4 and 10 did not get odds. He only Layed odds on the Inside Numbers. He also had rules about how many times he would get knocked off of bets with odds, and if he hit that number he'd take down all remaining Lay bets and simply wait for a decision on his flat bets.

Several members played Dave's System with varying degrees of success. Personally, I liked parts of it and modified it slightly to fit my own bankroll tolerances. One other forum member wrote a WinCraps script for Dave's System and ran it through several million rolls but was never able to document any long run success with the strategy. Nevertheless, those who played with Dave swore by the systems effectiveness.

Which gets me to the question at hand today. If you're playing the Don'ts do you Lay Odds on the Four and Ten? Remember, you have to Lay $50 to win $25 on a $25 game. The Lay odds are 2 - 1. Most players don't like laying "more to win less." What do you think? Explain why and what you do if you get knocked off.

The idea of laying more to win less comes up from time to time and it's that old thing about how much money do you have on the table as a right
shooter to win what? If you have $120 inside to win $35 or $42..what's the freakin' diff? I only have $51 out there to win $25.
Like laying the 4 and 10 after they've been hit over 5 times on a short martingale leash if I get knocked off the first shot. And the lost four or ten after twelve rolls or so. I don't start going DP on shooters unless I get a cold table signal. I know, I know..the math says what it says, but I use it anyway. One knock down pulls me back for the next shooter.

I agree, and use that example all the time when explaining the illogical argument of right side players about betting more to win less on the Don'ts. $22 inside to win $7? $44 inside to win $14? $66 inside to win $21? $110 inside to win $35? Laying one number on the Don'ts will pay you better.

How about if the DC/DP travels to the four or ten, place or buy it. Break even win $20?

You can actually make a DP and win both ways placing the number. At the lowest level..$15 dollar table. DP for $19. Any number will do. Come out 4?
Place the 4 for $15. Hit the four and you get $27 - $19= +$8. Seven out and you make $4. If have the cojones..expand that principal up into the hundreds. Make a DP for a ton..win a ton either way.

thnick wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:40 am You can actually make a DP and win both ways placing the number. At the lowest level..$15 dollar table. DP for $19. Any number will do. Come out 4?
Place the 4 for $15. Hit the four and you get $27 - $19= +$8. Seven out and you make $4. If have the cojones..expand that principal up into the hundreds. Make a DP for a ton..win a ton either way.

I think you need to make sure your place bets are working on the come out ...

Wouldn't do that. Seven kills you two ways if yr. coming out on the don't and you have PBs working. No?

thnick wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:56 pm Wouldn't do that. Seven kills you two ways if yr. coming out on the don't and you have PBs working. No?

Well if they are on the same number the seven wins one and the place bet wins one depending on whether you toss the seven or the number...

Your DC wins on the Comeout 7, loses if you rolling the point since the DC is always working ...???

Any Lay is a good Lay.

One of my favorite wagering regimes is Laying a 6 or 8. I prefer a Pos Progression as frequently we see a shooter toss three hits on 6 and or 8s in a single hand.


Continued Success,