Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Don't recall ever seeing this question or subject being discussed.

With any Set, the shooter with all his highs and lows of tosses/hand will average a 7out per the shooter's established technique using his Set of choice.
Presuming for an example that a 7out is actually going to happen on the 7th toss(the fickle finger hath so declared), the shooter changes his Set for the 5th toss and continues the Hand until the 15th toss becomes the 7out.
OK, a specious example, but you get the idea.
Perhaps the characteristics the shooter is getting from Set 1 that are "setting up" the "eventual" 7out, is then somewhat nullified by characteristics the shooter gets with a new Set, 7's coming from such as both dice off axis with Set 1, to both dice displaced one face, etc?

V2 to V3?
S6 to HDWYS?
All-7's to V3?
#tosses of Set 1 to #tosses Set 2?

Does a change restart the meter for SRR? - could be greater overall or lesser depending on such as a shooter's POI

Just as in a random game you are mathematically always 6 rolls away from the next seven, if you are a DI and have an SRR of 7.6 with a set, mathematically you are 7.6 rolls away from a seven on the next roll - and the next one - and the next one - and the next one. The dice don't know if it's the first toss or the fifty-first toss. If you change sets you're mathematically as far away from the sevens as your SRR is with that particular set. Your SRR will change from set to set, however in theory if you're setting the traditional iterations of the V-2, V-3, or X'6 set the SRR will be the same from set to set. Ditto for the sevens-dominant sets. It's when you get into mutants or variant sets that the SRR changes. If you look at the various tables within BoneTracker for permutations you'll see what I'm talking about. Bottom line - your dice don't know that you've changed sets.

Just my two cents and this is personal observation. It seems like almost every time in the casino that I change sets during a hand "to fool the dice". I end up just fooling myself and 7 out. I finally learned this lesson and go with my best 7 avoidance set during the point cycle and my least 7 avoidance set during the come out cycle. You all may have better results with this than I have but I don't ever remember out thinking the dice!

Agree there is no difference. Has been said the HDWY set 4s with 5s facing is less likely to 7 and is used by less experienced DI's. I find if I am off..I'm just off and I can produce a seven from anything..even throwing the evil person next to me down the table.

Thanks for the replies. I was looking for opinions based on experience just as much as theory. In that regard, those replies are as much appreciated.

Now, my experience both in practice and just as much with several casinos, when changing Sets, I have had mostly good results.
For sure, the final count for each Set within a multi-Set Hand can't be known - the final determinant being whether the total number of hits are acceptable or hopefully a bit better than usual, thereby setting a higher SRR for combined-Set hands.
For example, when starting a hand, I use V2 for specific reasons, then switch to V3 for those reasons. Mostly, by a large degree, I like what I get. The SRR over 720 practice tosses for each Set are always comparable and I for sure use those results as guidelines to begin casino play.
Based on theory, it would appear those good hands would have been just as good as results without the switch - contrary to what I would like to "be" the reason for extra longevity.
Other than perhaps extending a hand via switching Sets, switching Sets does achieve other goals.
Any other opinions and/or factual experience out there?

About the only other goal I can see in switching sets is if you're trying to snipe out a specific number for a Bonus Bet or Fire Bet win - and I don't recommend doing that. I'm a believer in that old saying, "Dance with the one that brung you."

Had a good session at casino yesterday to include:

1st hand: After using V2 to get CO point of 6, nailed the buy4 in two shots. Switched to V3 for combined tosses of 25 after CO.
2nd hand: After the V2 point of 5, hit the buy 4 in three tosses, then switched to Hwy for combined tosses of 12 after CO
3rd hand: After the V2 point of 5, missed a buy in three tosses, switched to Hwy for combined tosses of 8 after CO.

Irish is largely right in that psychological does fit in.
I focus that every toss is "the beginning of" and especially so for changing Sets.
Further if "the beginning of" the hand survives for less than normal SRR before the switch, that's a good or sufficient warm-up for an average-better-than-normal final SRR for the hand. ie, a good head-start.
The usual hands are cold starts.
Why bother with switching? Heavy said it above - to achieve certain goals.

I wanted to know this very thing just last week. Instead of bone tracker I was using this little phone app called Craps Counter. Not all the features of bone tracker. I sent the author some suggestions with no response back, but it was easy and quicker to have my cell phone on the table instead of a laptop.

Anyway, I wanted to see if I could improve my SRR by switching sets every 3 or 4 rolls. I had a 29 roll practice session with a 10.1 SRR for 101 rolls. I don't know how repeatable this s, but that's what happened.

heavy wrote:About the only other goal I can see in switching sets is if you're trying to snipe out a specific number for a Bonus Bet or Fire Bet win - and I don't recommend doing that. I'm a believer in that old saying, "Dance with the one that brung you."

I agree with the premise, "dance with the one that brung you" and I most often stick with the same dice set I start with. There have been occasions where I have alternated my toss between two different sets and through anecdotal observation it seems my hand lasts longer (more # of rolls per hand and more points made per hand). Am I experiencing confirmation bias in this instance?

Is it possible to double pitch on the second set (at time of toss) and not experience the normal seven-out that I would experience on a double pitch of the first set, thereby extending my roll? Just something I have wondered about. Of course, it depends on the sets being used and the timing of the double pitch. Tell me if this is stinkin' thinkin' and I will course correct.

Added: I should probably provide an example. Obviously I am speaking to a double pitch which affects only one die of the set.

First die set, right die or left die double pitch results in seven.
sample first dice set (3-V):
Left Die: 3/2 facing shooter (1-6 axis) Right Die: 3/6 facing shooter (2-5 axis)

Second die set, right die or left die double pitch does not result in seven.
sample second dice set :
Left Die: 6/2 facing shooter (3-4 axis) Right Die: 2/4 facing shooter (1-6 axis)

Am I over thinking this? Is the answer just to stick with the set that does not result in a seven when one die double pitches? Does it only matter when you are prone to the double pitched die?

Yes, switch to an all 7s set first, then when you double pitch you won't 7 out