Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

To Buy or Not to Buy – How to Play the Five and Nine

Most craps players wisely "buy" four and ten rather than placing it. If not, the dealers usually suggest it. For good reasons. It lowers the house edge substantially. But few players use this option with the five and nine, and fewer dealers recommend it. Should you buy the five and nine? The answer is a definite “maybe.” It’s all relative to the size of your bet.
You can place the four or ten in multiples of $5. If the number rolls, you’re paid 9-to-5 on your wager. For example, $9 on $5, $18 on $10, $27 on $15. Since it’s a place bet, the original wager stays up unless you take it down. If the seven appears, you lose whatever you bet.

You can buy the four or ten for any amount, usually starting at $20. Steps of $5 are typical, but not mandatory. You pay an up-front commission or "vigorish" in addition to your bet. The fee is 5 percent, rounded down to the nearest whole dollar. The “breakage” varies from house to house, but frequently you can push for a better buy at the following rates:

$1 for bets from $20 to $39
$2 for bets from $40 to $59
$3 for bets from $60 to $79

If your number rolls you win 2-to-1 and keep the original wager, but the house retains the commission. A seven costs you both your bet and the vigorish.

Buying the five and nine is handled pretty much the same way, except that the bet must be an even amount and the payoff is 3-to-2. That “even money” thing is where it gets tricky sometimes.

Imagine you are going to bet $25 on the five. If you win, you're paid $35 and keep your $25 - $60 in all. Now, buy the five for $24 and give the dealer $1 commission. Win and get $36 ($24 wager paid at 3-2), keeping your $24, for a total of $60. If you lose you're out $25 whether you place or buy the number. At this level of play, buying and placing kick off identical results. But look what happens when your wager increases to $35. A place bet on the five wins $49 and you still have your $35, a total of $84. But Buy the five for $34 and pay $1 commission and things suddenly get better. Lose and you're out $35 either way. Win and pick up $51, keeping your $34, a total of $85 - $1 more.

Buy bets will outperform Place bets on the five and nine any time you’re wagering more than $26 (plus $1 commission) on the number. The down side? Many dealers will roll their eyes, grimace, or even openly complain when you make a play outside the “norm.” Some will think you simply don’t understand the game. Others will know you’re using the math of the game against the house to get a better gamble. Newer dealers my be completely baffled and have to ask the box for assistance. And just about all of them will resent having to calculate the payoff on something like a $58 Buy Bet on the five or nine. Is it worth the hassle? Hey. That’s MY dollar out there. I WANT it!

Heavy, what's your press schedule when buying the 5 and 9, especially in places like Biloxi where they do it for you automatically?

The key is in the first press. In most of the Mississippi casinos the "automatic" buy bet starts at $10, but the payoff is no different than the place bet at this level. You'd "buy it" at $10 and they'd pay you $15 in exchange for $1 commission. If you "place" it for $10 you get the same $15 for one. But at the $20 level instead of getting paid $28 for a place bet they'll pay you $30 for $1 - netting you an additional $1. So if a $20 bet on the five and nine is within your risk tolerance level that's probably where you should start.

I like to start out with $16 on the five and nine. That would pay me $24 for $1 on the win. Net net, that extra $1 commission paid you 2 for 1 on that extra buck you bet up front as compared to a Place bet.

From $16 I go to $36

From $36 go to $88

From $88 go to $160

From $160 to $360

From $260 to $880

Now you're just adding zeros . . . and table max becomes a real possibility.

A little play that I like to use when betting the five and nine is to place them each for $10.

When one hits, drop $1 and go to $25. Next hit tell the dealer to,"make my five or nine look like $10 and rack the remaining $50.

With this play, either one has to hit atleast twice to make it work.

Interesting. I thought that in Biloxi anyway, the buy happened at $20, not $10. But as you say, the buy/push payout is a wash at $10. It's my first press where I've been cheating myself when playing there, as I usually go 10, 15, 36. The third press I was doing to $80 is also not great either I think as it unnecessarily pushes the vig up $1, vs a press to $78. I might just drop $1 and press to $90 instead of 88.

A little play that I like to use when betting the five and nine is to place them each for $10.
When one hits, drop $1 and go to $25. Next hit tell the dealer to,"make my five or nine look like $10 and rack the remaining $50.

Nothing wrong with getting some profit off the table early. But if the casino offers buy bets on the five and nine starting at the $20 level you could just forget dropping the dollar and make it a $24 Buy bet. Pays $36 for $1 - which is the same as your $25 Place bet - but in Mississippi casinos you don't pay the vig up front in most cases. So you're risking a dollar less to win the same amount. Forget about it in Vegas. Most of the casinos there - even the ones that give you the first buy free on the four and ten - want the juice up front on the five and nine. Honestly, I think they make the rules up as they go along sometimes.

Ah, the good old days when a $10 five paid $14.50 in some Tunica joints! (And a $10 ten paid $19.50!!!)

Yeah, I paid for a Vegas trip with Kennedy half dollars once.

My 5-9 progression has been a bomb lately.

10-25-35-75-100-175-300-500.

The thing is 2nd hit pays you 25$ starting with 10 for 2.5x your investment and then you parlay next bet. Then you cash 9$ at the 75 press level, 80 at the 100, 125$ at the 175, 220$ at the 300. Next hits are 700$.

Hey Dan -

That's EXACTLY how I used to play it. Now I'll typically start at $15 and go direct to $35. Then when I get that next hit I take $50 for $1 and both the five and nine are paid for with a profit in the rack.

This is a great thread for both the place and buy plays.

I don't play the 5 and 9 often, but when I'm on them, I usually play it like

10-15-35-75-150-300-500

heavy wrote:Hey Dan -

That's EXACTLY how I used to play it. Now I'll typically start at $15 and go direct to $35. Then when I get that next hit I take $50 for $1 and both the five and nine are paid for with a profit in the rack.

I'm not a 66 inside guy all of yet, but it is a great move I've done from time to time, just like 6&8 12 to 30 or 18 to 42.

I taught myself to play at the $18 six and eight - $66 inside - $96 across level out of necessity since so often I'd walk up to the table and find myself facing a $15 game. Once you get comfortable with it it's no different than $44 inside.

I know I have to most time I play week ends. 15$ min here too. But I usually just cut the 5 out and go 6-8-9 for 51. And when I profit the hand or other numbers are hitting, I drop the rest of the across.