Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:02 pm**

That's the conundrum with BT...is it designed for betting or tossing analysis? These are two different things. Good/Bad 7 calculations are more for betting focus.

The limited betting modules in BT are really primitive and not really all that useful, IMO. BT is a great tool for toss and edge analysis, but I don't use it for modeling betting.

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:57 pm**

Not sure why you would not want to throw a seven on the comeout?

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:58 pm**

HOo,
The only reasons I can think of for not wanting a 7 on the Come Out is if the shooter is a Come better or playing a bonus bet that has to be reset on a Come Out 7. I personally love 7's on a Come Out so I have a set I use that produces more of them for me.

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:13 pm**

It really is a table thing. One table might produce 7’s on the Hardways, the next the V3 does the job. Keeping notes is essential.

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:51 pm**

Not sure why you would not want to throw a seven on the comeout?

I guess bonus bet resets is stating the obvious. For me i just dont like throwing them. I worked really hard to develop a toss to avoid them so i just as soon never toss one. I think they have a negative impact on the mental side of things unless you are setting for them. I will win more if i can avoid them than i will with an occasional come out winner.

I have learned alot about the dark side the last year so somtimes i dont mind seeing one at the table, but i never bet against myself so i dont want to ever toss one.

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:55 pm**

Parson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:24 pm Maybe some thing like an SOR. Seven out ration?

I'm presuming you mean seven out ratio.....

If you are looking for ratio of sevens to rolls, that's SRR and I know you know that. So if you are looking for number of tosses per hand (all hands end in seven) then look on the R.B.S. Tab. That's Rolls Between Sevens. Click on the "button" near the top and the VBA macro will make these calculations in the "background" and fill in the values. There's lots of good info in the three charts under the table. Check it out.

If you're looking for something different then, we'd need more details, DN8R

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:22 pm**

rhythm roller wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:35 pm I must be missing something on the need for a "good 7" program in bonetracker. If I use a different set for my come out tosses then I just use a different worksheet set up in bonetracker for that set. Then on point cycle tosses I revert back to my original point cycle worksheet. Even if I toss a 7 on a come out with my point cycle set then it is a lucky 7 but still a bad 7. Curious what greater info would be gained from a "good 7" addition to the program. Must be greater insight into something that I am completely overlooking. More explanation, please. Thanks!

I agree with this; and as 22Inside notes, its not for betting analysis, its for tossing analysis. I have used separate BTs for come-out toss tracking, and for point tracking; for the past 15+ years. However, since working the straight out game, I've gone to one continuous stream of tosses as I'm looking for permutations that lead to more box numbers, longer hands, etc. I use BT to transpose from these sessions into point set analysis and come-out/GWAG set analysis.

I don't need sevens in GWAG (I'll tolerate them with World Bets), but if I'm betting ATS or repeaters, they need to stay far, far away.

However, let's say we can code up betting in BT; if so then who wants to design/write the specification/requirements so someone can code it. Its not enough to say I want it to do betting, or to know the difference between the good, the bad, and the ugly sevens. Everyone bets differently. AlleyOop's Tool knows the difference between good/bad sevens, but it doesn't press, nor regress, so who's method do you use in coding, or do you make it variable and flexible for everyone? Yeah, its sounding harder now, huh? It's also edit-protected, which I'm sure it could be cloned, but then what?

Ok off the soapbox....... let's focus.... BT is for analyzing tosses. Many use it to expand their scope into things like GWAG, ATS, and number sniping - that's its bread and butter - and it does it GREAT. BT 5.6 is a bit over 2.1 MB, so I think you ought to be able to get multiple copies running on your old computers, without having to transfer your pics of redheads to a memory stick (instead share them with all of us on google drive..... *wink* )

DN8R

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:27 pm**

DarthNater wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:55 pm
Parson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:24 pm Maybe some thing like an SOR. Seven out ration?
I'm presuming you mean seven out ratio.....

If you are looking for ratio of sevens to rolls, that's SRR and I know you know that. So if you are looking for number of tosses per hand (all hands end in seven) then look on the R.B.S. Tab. That's Rolls Between Sevens. Click on the "button" near the top and the VBA macro will make these calculations in the "background" and fill in the values. There's lots of good info in the three charts under the table. Check it out.

If you're looking for something different then, we'd need more details, DN8R

Yes i use RBS char all the time .... still id think a number like 9.5 or 12.6 as a seven out ration might be good... would tend to show the average length of a toss . Maybe i am overthinking it

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:55 pm**

Parson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:27 pm
Yes i use RBS char all the time .... still id think a number like 9.5 or 12.6 as a seven out ration might be good... would tend to show the average length of a toss . Maybe i am overthinking it

Look in Cell "O4" RBS is the hand length...... they are plotted by length in the graph from 0 to 20, where zero by definition is a back to back 7

DN8R

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:25 pm**

heavy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:33 pm
One of the issues with BoneTracker I'd like to see addressed in some future version

How about a combo, win craps and BT in one package, if Cloudcity could get maddog to take some money.
,

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:45 pm**

transfer your pics of redheads to a memory stick (instead share them with all of us on google drive..... *wink* )

Posted: **Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:38 pm**

Y'all clamoring for BT to be turned into a betting tool are missing the entire point of BT. BT should answer one question. Am I influencing the dice? This desire to combine things into some sort of betting tool indicates that people want to find a way to turn uninfluenced tosses into influenced results.

And yet our old friend Bill Collins did something very close to that. He took BT and reworked it into code (not Excel) with his own twists to turn it into a tool that identifies specific dice sets for specific betting results based on influenced (not uninfluenced) results. While I don't subscribe to his service (yeah, he offers it on a subscription basis only) those who are using it swear by it. Seems to me that if he could take BT and turn it into a free-standing software package that does this that someone else with good Excel skills could so the same within the framework of Excel. I'm not that guy - but that person has to exist out there. Just saying.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:14 am**

Darth: How does one handle BT input for stack shots or train shots?

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:57 am**

That's a good one, HO. Were/Are you a lawyer? Doesn't a lawyer always ask a question he/she knows the answer to?

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:45 pm**

House of Orange wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:14 am Darth: How does one handle BT input for stack shots or train shots?

BT uses Irish's avatar for those.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:37 pm**

DarthNater wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:45 pm
House of Orange wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:14 am Darth: How does one handle BT input for stack shots or train shots?
BT uses Irish's avatar for those.

In a stack shot the axis on the dice is vertical rather than horizontal. If I used a stack shot, which I do not, I would probably make the axial faces, i.e the top and bottom of each die to the left and right die faces in BT, as those represent the axial faces in a horizontal axis. I would then decide whether I would use the top or bottom die as the "left" or "right" die from a BT perspective. The die faces towards me would obviously become the Facing numbers in BT. Then choose whether you want the Left or Right faces to represent the "Top" numbers in your BT set.

Anyway, that's how I would map a stack shot into BT. The key is being consistent about it.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:22 am**

DarthNater wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:22 pm However, let's say we can code up betting in BT; if so then who wants to design/write the specification/requirements so someone can code it. Its not enough to say I want it to do betting, or to know the difference between the good, the bad, and the ugly sevens. Everyone bets differently. AlleyOop's Tool knows the difference between good/bad sevens, but it doesn't press, nor regress, so who's method do you use in coding, or do you make it variable and flexible for everyone? Yeah, its sounding harder now, huh? It's also edit-protected, which I'm sure it could be cloned, but then what?

So, it’s been a couple of months and no one has come forward with any feedback on a betting module for BT. Think about it and email me any ideas and pics/drawings as my PM box is usually full. That email is DarthNaterDice @ Gmail . com

Let’s hear from you, Nate

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:46 pm**

DarthNater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:22 am
So, it’s been a couple of months and no one has come forward with any feedback on a betting module for BT. Think about it and email me any ideas and pics/drawings as my PM box is usually full. That email is DarthNaterDice @ Gmail . com

Let’s hear from you, Nate

So, nothing in a week from anyone, should I presume there's no interest, or everyone was just too busy?

So let us know, DN8R

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:28 pm**

I really dont see the need for time being used on what will basically always be a static bet system. If you want to see how you would have done on outside numbers, then just plug it in .... its also great for showing when your toss really sucked and you see the bankroll go down or in the red.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:03 pm**

DarthNater wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:46 pm
So, nothing in a week from anyone, should I presume there's no interest, or everyone was just too busy?

So let us know, DN8R

Plenty of interest from me, just need to take your classes first to assess my Win based computer needs and MS office needs. Not coming in with the March Madness crowd, air fares through the roof, never bothered checking with hotels and car rentals. So looks like June at the earliest.

Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker

Re: Bonetracker