Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater

Parson
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Parson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:09 am

N8, careful or your gonna get hooked. Making and hitting extreme points is a rush ...
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Big O
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Big O » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:06 am

Nice hand, crapless is a lot of fun when the extremes are popping.

both 1-5 combos, so placed the six, then had a 1-4 five and placed the five.

I use this place betting style alot if for some reason i havent bet across. It will occasionally draw a remark from the dealer "it pays better if you bet before the number rolls" I respond this is what i call player control come betting.
"if it was easy anyone could do it"

220Inside
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by 220Inside » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:08 am

Way to tap into your knowledge of your specific sets, signature numbers, and toss. Knowledge is power.

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Bankerdude80
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Bankerdude80 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:15 pm

heavy wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:05 pm
a private crapless table there is probably not out of the question.
This might be worth investigating for one of our Darksider Ball or Right or Wrong Craps weekends.
Heavy, FYI. The Strat's VP of Casino Operations is Brian Stanton. He'd be your contact person. He's old school Vegas, believes in the math and doesn't sweat the money.
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Moe Bettor
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Moe Bettor » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:22 am

Yes. The strat and the El Cortez also do private tables where you can also film. Don't think the EC has crapless.

rhythm roller
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by rhythm roller » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:35 pm

How is the bounce factor on the Strat Crapless table? Thanks!
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DarthNater
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by DarthNater » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:02 pm

rhythm roller wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:35 pm How is the bounce factor on the Strat Crapless table? Thanks!
They have two Crapless tables, the one closest to the sports book is usually open. I hear the others are open on weekends, but I’ve not played them yet. The bounce is average, not high like at Circa and a bit less than Luxor or Excalibur. Still, I usually get a couple of flyoffs per hand and if I’m angled coming into the wall then it’s a mess, quickly. It was more bouncy until I lowered my angle a bit; that helped a lot. It’s taken multiple sessions to dial in that table as it’s been tricky getting the same position. Also my straight out left toss is lower than my straight out right toss. I think the LZ for the SOL is a bit deader than the SOR.

Also, some of my strong practice numbers don’t roll much, leading me to briefly consider charting, though I have not to date. There’s no plexi, they clean between shooters and the crew really likes tokes; I had them on the ATS and they were rooting loudly for me, DN8R
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DarthNater
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by DarthNater » Sat May 01, 2021 11:34 pm

Today, during the Derby, all three Strat tables were open, all were $10 mins. I saw a rhythm roller toss three hard fours in a row on the regular (non-crapless?) table. One guy had bought the four for $50 and had a $10 come bet, it travelled and he capped the come with $150 odds. Yeah on a 10x table, they booked it, he won and was paid. He then bought the four for $450 in time for that third hardway and brought it all down.

I was studying the bounces on all three tables under the guise of waiting to play. Both the regular and the crapless table farther from the sports book have more bounce than the other crapless table. I was not able to play this day. No plexi.

I also heard there is a crapless table at the rebranded Sahara, and will check that out next week. Btw the road construction on the strip from Encore to the Arch past the Strat is a mess Sahara blvd traffic is a disaster as the strip is one lane there

DN8R
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Parson
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Parson » Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 am

If your going to have your extremes working, and they are exposed to the 7 on the comeout. With a $15 table thats $60 exposed.... would you hop the seven or in my thot process, do a 3 way craps for $5 each, exposing only 15 and earn more than the place/buys and forget the yo? or you could do a $20 horn if you want the yo. if your good and can hit those extremes on the comeout, the higher pay would let your chips stay in the rack and support your initial outlay to the extremes plus.

Crapless is the only game I have intentionally shot for the 7 on the comeout, you cant lose if another craps number shows. With the ATS in play, I would generally place more than the ATS combined to lock up a win.
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Moe Bettor
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Moe Bettor » Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am

Whirl or world bet.

220Inside
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by 220Inside » Tue May 04, 2021 11:34 am

Parson wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 am If your going to have your extremes working, and they are exposed to the 7 on the comeout. With a $15 table thats $60 exposed.... would you hop the seven or in my thot process, do a 3 way craps for $5 each, exposing only 15 and earn more than the place/buys and forget the yo? or you could do a $20 horn if you want the yo. if your good and can hit those extremes on the comeout, the higher pay would let your chips stay in the rack and support your initial outlay to the extremes plus.

Crapless is the only game I have intentionally shot for the 7 on the comeout, you cant lose if another craps number shows. With the ATS in play, I would generally place more than the ATS combined to lock up a win.
An equal sized Any 7 bet will protect the working extreme bets on the comeout. So $15 2,3, 11, 12 and a $15 Any 7.

The World bet is not as useful in crapless, I think, since the PL will not generate a win on an 11. I haven't really put a lot of thought though in how one might best use a world bet in crapless versus a set of working extreme bets.

Parson
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Parson » Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 am

22Inside wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:34 am
Parson wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 am If your going to have your extremes working, and they are exposed to the 7 on the comeout. With a $15 table thats $60 exposed.... would you hop the seven or in my thot process, do a 3 way craps for $5 each, exposing only 15 and earn more than the place/buys and forget the yo? or you could do a $20 horn if you want the yo. if your good and can hit those extremes on the comeout, the higher pay would let your chips stay in the rack and support your initial outlay to the extremes plus.

Crapless is the only game I have intentionally shot for the 7 on the comeout, you cant lose if another craps number shows. With the ATS in play, I would generally place more than the ATS combined to lock up a win.
An equal sized Any 7 bet will protect the working extreme bets on the comeout. So $15 2,3, 11, 12 and a $15 Any 7.

The World bet is not as useful in crapless, I think, since the PL will not generate a win on an 11. I haven't really put a lot of thought though in how one might best use a world bet in crapless versus a set of working extreme bets.
Agree on the equal size 7 bet, but 30:1 is better than 6:1 was my thinking.... of course one shot and done. I don't think I have seen a world bet made on crapless ... Hardly ever anyone but the shooter places a Passline bet in Tunica.
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220Inside
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by 220Inside » Tue May 04, 2021 5:57 pm

For a $15 table, maybe a low entry play is a $10 world with $2 each shocka and yo. Toss an extreme and you're looking at basically $60, which can be used to pay for extreme $15 place bets. Or push to $15 world and $3 shocka/yo, for $90, then you can rack a little profit in addition to setting up the extreme place bets and odds.

Parson
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Parson » Tue May 04, 2021 7:53 pm

Ok, so i was wargaming a come out set and a session set ... tonight i had come 6,8,2,12 i forget which order. But if that were crapless, and you know you have a good or same srr, you set the point at 12, you gotta hang with that set ... which goes back to my 6,8 extremes play with sometimes a field. Or, i may be just drinking too much?

My problem (mental, yes) is that i would be on the ATS as well, so i want to knock those extremes off, then change to set that might be 3 and 11 to the good but also gives me regular box numbers.... awhile back i thru a 2V till i was blue in the face trying to hit a six because i was hitting so many 3s and 11s and outside numbers.
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220Inside
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by 220Inside » Tue May 04, 2021 8:22 pm

If you're on crapless and banging out the extremes, screw trying to snipe the ATS.... :mrgreen:

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DarthNater
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by DarthNater » Wed May 05, 2021 12:27 am

22Inside wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:22 pm If you're on crapless and banging out the extremes, screw trying to snipe the ATS.... :mrgreen:
Banging the extremes is still not as good as a full 5/5/5 ATS win; unless you’re black chipping on the extremes. Besides you can have it both ways hit all four extremes and you’re in pretty good shape to bag, at a minimum, a ATS side.

Realize though you are going to likely need two sets to be an extremes banger, as 2 and 12 are mutually exclusive ( at least in my BT work from straight out.

I haven’t wargamed prop action to protect my four working extreme bets, as I’ve been laying the 4, 5, or 9 depending on which horn set I’m employing. Never the ten as it seems to hit a bunch on a couple of the crapless tables here. But I realize there’s not many joints that let you lay in crapless.

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DarthNater
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by DarthNater » Wed May 05, 2021 12:50 am

Btw was rolling on a Crapless last week. Using a Extreme One Hit Can’t Miss (EOHCM) on randies. $15 on 2 and 12 working with $80 No Four. Or a $100 No Four and include a $10 3 & 11. I also switch to a $10 2/12 with a $15 3/11 if I’m seeing lots of 3/11s. After three sessions of that play I’ve had four knockdowns of the lay. But far more hits on the extremes.

Biggest problem so far was a guy who so reeked of weed that I should have donned a second mask. He was betting $250 across on each shooter, and then his buddy showed up with even stronger weed fumes. He did toss back-2-back aces and then a bit later back-2-back 12s. My first four hit score, which is a rarity, but got me back on the plus side.

DN8R
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220Inside
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by 220Inside » Wed May 05, 2021 8:20 am

DarthNater wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:27 am
22Inside wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:22 pm If you're on crapless and banging out the extremes, screw trying to snipe the ATS.... :mrgreen:
Banging the extremes is still not as good as a full 5/5/5 ATS win; unless you’re black chipping on the extremes. Besides you can have it both ways hit all four extremes and you’re in pretty good shape to bag, at a minimum, a ATS side.
It also depends on how aggressive your press schedule is on the extremes. Those 6-1 payouts on the 2/12 rack up pretty quickly and can overtake a 5/5/5 ATS, especially if you also factor in the cost of resets.

There was a TR thread a couple of months ago where I opined on a potential 2/12 press schedule which went something like: 25-75-250-750-2500-5000. Still lets you rack up decent profits on the first couple of hits but really gets you out there quickly if you catch a hand that does get hot on either the 2 or 12.
DarthNater wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:27 am Realize though you are going to likely need two sets to be an extremes banger, as 2 and 12 are mutually exclusive ( at least in my BT work from straight out.
And that only takes into account the 2 and 12. If you get a couple of hits on 3 or 11, at some point you might want to concentrate more on the sets that are shocka and yo rich once those numbers get pressed up to where they start competing with chasing hits on the 2 and 12. Plus toss in an in point set if you're not fully playing for the extremes and pretty soon you've got to have a reasonably large number of sets to keep track of and switch between.
DarthNater wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:27 am I haven’t wargamed prop action to protect my four working extreme bets, as I’ve been laying the 4, 5, or 9 depending on which horn set I’m employing. Never the ten as it seems to hit a bunch on a couple of the crapless tables here. But I realize there’s not many joints that let you lay in crapless.
I'm really coming around to the notion of using a lay bet instead of an any 7 to protect a working set of extremes for places that allow lay bets. Those any 7 hedge bets really add up quickly over the course of a session.

Moe Bettor
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Moe Bettor » Wed May 05, 2021 9:32 am

Laying on crapless is rare. I mean..if you think about it crapless is all about the casino catching the percentage bet..the seven out. If a crapless table allows a don't bet it kind of defeats what the casino is going for here doesn't it? I remember one session a couple years back at HGC where the crapless went cold and it was devastating. Either cold or a chop benefits the casino with no lay bet. That's two table conditions out of three.

Parson
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Re: Welcome to the Crapless Craps Corner

Post by Parson » Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 am

$4 any 7 and $15 3 way on a $15 table seems to be a hedge - assuming you want a hedge.

now throw in ATS .... Would need minimum pass that covers the ATS. (This generally my play, but I am considering the three Way Craps on CO)
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