Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Yeah, you heard me right. Forget all this talk about biased dice and crooked casinos. All the house has to do to screw with most of the players I know is up the $10 table limit to $15. Suddenly everyone goes into mind lock. OMG! Where do I have to start my bets at to do a regression? Should I bet inside or just the six and eight? What if I get whacked by an early seven out? What if, what if, what if? Suddenly you're beset by paralysis by analysis and your mind shuts completely down. What the hell should you do?

Well, here are a couple of ideas. First off - Color Coming In! I mean, seriously. These guys don't have the only game in town. You don't have to play it. But if you insist . . .

Let's try the old $15 DP combined with a $25 PL bet. Now you have $10 at risk again. At least you can approach your line bets that way - IF the casino will permit is. Some of them have gotten wise to this ploy through the years.

So, let's try another approach. Let's turn this puppy into a $25 game. Yep. You heard right. Just move right on past that $15 thing - after all the real reason it confuses you is the math. It's much easier for most of us to do the math on a $25 game. Plus I like the regressions better. $220 inside. One hit pays $70. Make it look like $30 each on the six and eight. Bam! We're in business with a $10 profit in the rack and $60 action on the table.

Not comfortable with a $25 game - then let's just play a $15 game and learn the math. Your place bets are going to look like this. $220 inside. First hit pays what? If you said $70 you'd be in the ball park. Make it look like $66 inside. It ain't rocket science. Yeah, you have to step up on your betting a bit to get a proper regression in. Yeah, you're going to get whacked once in awhile. But you're also going to win a few.

Don't have the bankroll for a $15 game? Time to head to Downtown Vegas. There'll be plenty of $5 games down there - even on a Satuday night.

I was at the old HS in S/B, the table was $5, the players were making money. Suddenly, the box announced, "Next shooter, a $25 table. They had many $5 tables open, so all the players just migrated. The backdraft of players leaving almost sucked the crew along.
sia

I hear ya. Truth is, a $25 table with 2 players will probably make more profit for the casino than a $5 table with 10 players. Same edge on the same amount of money if they all bet conservatively - but it seems to me that most of the people I've seen playing higher limit tables tend to be some of the worst game theorists in the casino.

Friday morning I had the buffet breakfast at Harrahs NOLA and mosied over to the single open table and found 4 players at a $15 game at 815 am. I asked the box, or semi box / floor, "what's with a $15 game at 8am" and he said "it was busy all night."

Knew I wasn't getting anywhere so I dropped it. Yeah they are maximizing but it still sucks. Problem is they are the only game in town.

Buffet wasn't bad. Fewer players means more shooting. The way the game is played in a captive market.

Golfer

Thought I'd bump this thread since GAC is just around the corner. The question is, how would you guys and gals bet at a $15 table?

Well I avoid them whenever I can, but I would start with a 2 step martingale on the don't for other shooters while waiting for the dice. $15, lose, step up to $30, 2 bets per shooter. If the table is trending warm, on other shooters I would go inside for 2-3 rolls and down. If someone gets on a heater I would throw out an iron cross and power press until I have most of the numbers covered and go from there. I don't enjoy playing the don't, but if you are aggressive on the right side on a $15 table and the table is bad you can drop a grand in a hurry.

If I have the dice, I would cover the inside numbers with minimum units and the 4 and the 10 (if they are not the point) with a $3 all day hardway and hop the easy 4 and 10 for 2 each. Cheap coverage on the 4 and 10. Trying to give myself wide coverage and 3-4 paying hits to pay for most of the bets as quickly as possible. I don't like an initial regression on a higher dollar table because it's too high a percentage of my usual buy-in which is $300-$500. A couple short rolls and it's tough to recover from. Once I have 3-4 hits and $'s at risk are reduced I will press and then regress at some point and then press hard after that.

So basically, I try to nickel and dime the table without putting too many dollars at risk and give myself a chance to benefit on my own rolls. This goes a little bit against your phrase "get in, get up, get out" but I want enough table time to grind out a win.

Bet the One hit-Can't miss, looking to transition. $18 -$18-$18.

I don't like those $15 tables. For a lot of people their buy in gets hammered. Just minimally betting $15 PL and $18 six and eight already throws you
into a $500 buy in..if you are percentage conscious. What I've done is track the table for bad shooters..randies on a cooling table and skip the CO, go for 15 DP with $1 hi and yo, hop $3 7s (if you want), and get a number. Then wait until the shooter hits a 10 or 4..wait a couple rolls and go
no ten or four. Playing the $15 right side just doesn't work for me. I have another bet which strictly involves the field, but . It is really a crazy crapper method that seems to work, but I am still testing it. So far, so good.

SIA - I would do $20 DP then place the six and eight for $18 each. Any hit on the six or eight pays $21, guaranteeing you a $1 profit - which you could then use to tip the dealers.

Got my first taste of a $15 table last week in Vegas. Played $18 on 6 and 8 and some single dp with $30 offs at times

Just saw this post. Great timing for me. I was at Cleveland "Jack" casino Thurs. night. $10 table; $300 buy in. Table was pretty warm. Once around the table with all players taking their turn, and I'm up $250. My turn was poor, no points, 5-6 rolls. Table was very bouncy. I have no comfort with that table yet. Pit Boss announces next shooter table goes to $15. After that shooter, who had a nice hand, I colored up. I'm a little gun shy after last weekend in Windsor, playing $15 tables (Fri and Sat. night) and losing my bankroll. I appreciate Heavy's advice and will look to have a better plan next time I have no choice but a $15 table. In Windsor, they have $5 tables in the morning, $10 afternoon and usually $15 weekend nights. I thought I could just play the PL and 6/8 but never considered the dark side. They do let you hedge up there. So, with a better plan, I would have saved my bankroll and been able to play longer and smarter and maybe turned things around. I did have one good, 20 minute roll Sunday and won some back. Thanks for the suggestions. Back to the planning strategy and practice stage.

If I'm forced into this situation, I usually will just go dark with a strict loss limit. I'll even wait out decent shooters until I get the dice. I'll make a $15 DP and up to two DC bets with no odds. If I happen to hit a natural I'll press it up to $25 and let it ride from there. If I lose two bets in a row (numbers or points made) I stop and wait for the next shooter. It's not flashy but I like the fact it's a good low vig bet. Like saying F U back to the pit when they get greedy by jacking up the minimums. And at that level I don't feel bad about the right siders.

A fun old story about $15 tables, which I will not play on ... although a long time ago back in my married days when I could afford it more, I played a night on a $25 table at Venetian ... breaking even and having some fun and anxiety LOL.

Anyway ... one night after some friends bowled the Petersen Classic a group of us went to Grand Victoria in Elgin, IL. Back when they had 6 or 8 tables still. $15 was lowest table open. We had me and a friend in for $200 and four others in for $100 each for an $800 stake. Me and a friend split the playing and we were just going for crazy fun with $15 pass and at least $40 odds, $78 or $81 across, and $1 hardways parlaying the first hit and pressing strong from there. At the other end was a guy playing thousands on the DON'T. And a shooter from that end went on a major heater for about 45 minutes. We had the hard 8 from $1 to $10 to $25 to $50 to $100 and hit at $100 ... but not $200. place 8 was at $1,500. We ended up coloring for $7,200. That is the biggest win I've ever been a part of although my stake was just $1,800, which is not the most I've won.
The DON'T guy lost about $25,000 in chips and $5,000 cash 4 MORE TIMES if memory serves me right before he gave up. It was epic.
Would never have played the $15 table on my own.

Great story! Luckily I'm not capable of acquiring such assets even to lose them.

Just make a 15$ dp, if it moves to 6-8 you put a dc for 15$, then remove the dp bet and place 6-8 or my fav 8-9 ( you get one of each for best sister number on the dice ) If you wanna get tricky you can put 3$ on hard 4 for fun bonus, parlay first hit on anything and collect second hit... When feeling like it, place a third number.

Usually gives me good runs at the 15$ table. At my casino weekends are always 15$ so i had to find a way heh.(and next one's two hour drive).

on very cold table go 20$dp then 15$Dc and throw 30$ odds on each after 4th roll.

If you can throw these dice and make significative repeaters, try this:
Co roll make sixes on top, duces in back.
Or I like 2-3top,3-2 back ( gives a lotta 5-9 )
Then,
Set ones on top fives in the back.
That will mostly give you:
Aces,3craps,hard4 &10, 5+1 for 6, 6+2 for 8.

20$ dp, then 20$ dc keep the dc from travelling until it's going to 5-9(once) then take dp out. at the same time place the 6 for 18$. Put 3$ on hard4&10.

By keeping your bet in the box from travel you get paid on aces and craps3. With losing your bet only from 11-7.

So you eventualy get 6-8 hard 4&10 and craps 3 & aces covered. Parlay first hit, collect second, parlay third, collect fourth, parlay fifth, collect twice and regress. That's if you think you can hit 7 times on one bet, but remember you get two craps for price of one on that box.

Believe me, it looks like a lot but it pays real well when it hits!! 20$ dc box, 18 on six, 6$ for hard 4&10 combine cost 44 - 20$ dp or dc you establish on 5 or 9. Makes it cost you 24$ if it goes wrong by hit 3or4 only. But if its earlier it is 0 or 20$. Later...you made money on it.

Make 182 on hard4 pay you and you get 1274$ out of 3$ after a payout of 168$ on second hit... Good to me!

If the table is empty and I'm playing alone I ask to make it a quarter table.

Some casinos will "split" a table for you and leave one end at $15 and make the other end $25 if you wish. Same goes if you want a $100 game. The only reasons I can see to do this is because you want to thin the herd OR you want to push your max bets up. A $100 100X odds game will let you get a LOT of money on every number. As for my play - I more or less trained myself to play at the $15 level, so I have all of my press moves down by rote. Five and nine start at $15 and immediately get pressed to $35 on the first hit. From then on they pay $50 for $1. Same for the six and eight, starting at $18 each and dropping $3 to press to $42 on the first hit on each number. What I SHOULD be doing is playing $154 inside from the get-go based on recent play over at S/B. We'll make that a goal in 2017.

I definitely do it as a herd thinning measure and to try to keep the landing zone clear. I prefer the dice in my own hands or the hands of a known DI as much as possible. And yes, the last few times I asked to turn up a table at the Rio they only raised it on the side I was on which i didn't like as the other end is still vulnerable to the drive by's dropping a red chip right where I want to land the dice.

Hadn't really thought about a $15 table much before. Played one last year at the Cromwell but went in with no plan and felt on the back foot.

Recent reference to this post via another one got me thinking. Best not to over complicate matters:

$500 buy in
$45 or $50 in your hand, whatever is easiest. You have money for 10 shooters.

$18 each on the 6&8 first. Keep $9 handy in your hand from the change. First hit, drop the $9 and place 5 and 9 for $15 each. Then you are off to the races on your same bet/press moves of choice.

As H says above, really the press moves should be easy as they may already form part of your normal progression. If not 15 to 25 then 35 for conservative progression on 5 and 9, 18 to 30 to 42 for similar move on 6&8 and soon you''ll be collecting $50 for 1. Miss out the middle step if you are feeling more aggressive.

Was on last night, had a good session even if I threw low teens.

Had two random rollers light firebet, almost got to a 5pts.

From what I see best press is 2 unit continious progression... 6-8 to 18, drop 3 to go to 30, same bet, then press 2 units on what hits. Did good last night!