Betting the Six and Eight

[heavy]

It's interesting to see both the different philosophies and strategies out there when it comes to betting the Six and Eight. Recently while playing at one of my local joints a shooter from straight out got hot on the Six and Eight and was killing them. I quickly took my bets from $18 - $42 - $90 and was happily sitting there collecting $105 on every hit. Meanwhile he was collecting zip because he was betting $35 each on the Five and Nine and $25 each on the Four and Ten. Sixteen or Seventeen rolls into his hand I had collected Seven or Eight hundred dollars and he'd collected - maybe $100. He was pissed off and was asking for new dice every few rolls and was just slinging the dice down table as hard as he could and the Sixes and Eights just kept on coming. He was bitching that the dice were no damned good. I finally suggested that perhaps he should Place the Six and Eight. He angrily told me that "I don't bet the Six and Eight because they don't pay shit." I said, "They've paid me around $800 so far this hand while the outside numbers haven't paid you squat." He Sevened out shortly after and stormed off to the ATM to recharge his bankroll. And when he returned to buy-in again it was more of the same. Some people just can't learn. They have their philosophy on betting and they're going to live or die by it. Me? I'm always going to bet the Six and Eight. Yeah, at $7 - $6 they pay less than the outside numbers - but they pay it more often. The house edge is less on the Six and Eight, so they're better bets. Again, I always bet them. Even when I'm playing the Don'ts. Go figure.

Which gets me to the question I'd like to hear your responses on. How do YOU bet the Six and Eight? For the sake of this question we'll assume we're playing on a weekday off-strip somewhere and we've found a $10 game, so the minimum bet is $12. You can start with a $12 bet or larger if you wish. Give me your favorite Six and Eight play - or the one you're most successful with - or the one you've always wanted to try but never had the balls to try - or whatever. I'd like to see some variety here, so let's not repeat something someone else has posted verbatim, but if you have your own twist on a similar strategy let's hear that. Progressions, regressions, Place to Come, whatever. And I'll get it started with TWO of my favorite plays.

First off is my standard power press progression you've read about here many times - starting with $18 each on the Six and Eight.

First hit on either number drop $3 and Press the number that hit to $42.
If that number repeats collect $50 for $1 and Same Bet.
If the Sister number rolls collect $21 and Same Bet. MEMO: Once one number hits the Sister number must roll TWICE or the Pressed number must REPEAT before the Sister number can be pressed.
Second hit on the Pressed number pays $50 for $1 - press it to $90.
If the Sister number rolls on for a Second hit drop $3 and Power Press it to $42. At that point you should have both numbers pressed to $42.
Third hit on a number pressed to $90 pays $105 - lock up $100 - drop $1 on the extra $5 and place that number for $6 for the dealers. It's always good to have the dealers in the game - player control.
Fourth hit on a number pressed to $90 - press to $180 and lock up $15 change.
From this point on you are pressing every other hit. The progression is as follows:
Hit at $180 - Pays $210 - Drop $30 - Power Press to $420
Hit at $420 - Pays $500 for $10 - Lock up $500
Second hit at $420 - Pays $500 for $10 - Press to $900. Lock up $10.
Hit at $900 - Pays $1050 - Lock up $1000 - Dealer toke $50 (or press dealer bets by $50)
Second Hit at $900 - Press to $1800 - lock up $150 change.
Hit at $1800 - Pays $2100 - lock up $2100
Second hit at $1800 - Pays $2100 - Put on your big balls and drop $300 and power press to $4200
Hit at $4200 - Pays $5000 for $100 - Lock up $5000
Stay there for the duration - press to $5000 on the next hit - or take it all down.

Okay, real world on the above press play - it's not that unusual to get your Six and Eight pressed up to $420 on a good shooter. I get mine pressed up to $180 all of the time starting at $18 each. But getting it to $420 and getting that next hit for $500 for $10 is always a challenge. Once you break that $500 barrier then getting it to $900 and hitting it for $1050 isn't that big of a next step. But that $500 barrier is a bitch. Real world. So I wouldn't think less of anyone who reached the $420 mark and just sat there and collected $500 for $10 half a dozen times and never pressed beyond that. But seriously, you would be kicking yourself in the butt in hindsight if you didn't go for the bigger win. Just saying.

Next up is the trusty old one hit regression move. Easy peasy. On a $10 table you start out with $24 each on the Six and eight. First hit on either number pays $28 and you REGRESS to $12 each. That gives you a total of $24 in action and leaves you with $4 profit in the rack after that one hit. The next hit kicks off an additional $14 profit, giving you a total of $18 in profit. From there the decision is yours. You can come down on both the Six and Eight and lock up an additional profit of $24 for a total profit of $42 for the shooter, or leave the $24 in action and take a shot and getting another hit for another $14 in profit and then coming down for $56 profit, or you could Press the Six and Eight both to $18 on that hit and lock up $2 profit and put your guarantee at $6 with a shot at an additional $21 on the third hit. If you GOT that third hit you could come down with $21 plus $36 added to that $6 for a total of $63 after three hits. Or you could press your luck up from there. The MAIN things the regression move gives you are a small PROFIT after one hit and OPTIONS on what to do from there.

So there you go. My first two Six and Eight plays for you guys to kick around. Now let's hear yours.

[Z-Axis]

A less aggressive play I have used is...

Start with $18 on both six & eight
First hit , drop $3, and press both six & eight to $30
Second hit collect $35

From there one has (-$4) in the bank with $60 in action. One can power press, regress, or same bet going forward.

Disclaimer: Probably learned this on this board somewhere.

[Moe Bettor]

I like 5 and 9 and have a set from BT that can produce in that area with other numbers. I think before BT and Coaster, it was 6 and 8 all the way with exactly your progressions. I prefer to start 6 and 8 with $24 each. Two hits with regression to $18 each and your money is covered including the PL of $15.

[AllahPena]

15k across. 3k every # on standard table. 1 hit 3,500 press to max 6k, collect 500. Hit twice more at 6k for 7k payout each then start doing 1k put bets with 5k odds on top of the 6k then press 1k/5k every time picking up the profit also. So on the first hit with the put bet you're getting paid 14k, pressing 6k. Then picking up 21, pressing 6k more etc.

[220Inside]

I have regressions built into my strategy these days, but it's based on starting with an inside or even bet and regressing from there, at least for myself and other trusted shooters. But for randies that I want to get some action out there on I would use the same sort of regression that Heavy started with in his scenario

$24 6 and 8.
First hit collect $28, regress to $18 each (-$8 to the rack)

I'm going to pivot here to how I would bet the 6 and 8 on myself and trusted shooters. I used to be in the collect/press camp but fell out of favor with it for a couple of reasons. It is pretty difficult to remember which numbers are in collect mode and which are in press mode at all times as you start to spread out. I know that some have suggested using a line of white chips for each number and flipping them up or down to indicate whether each number is in a press or collect state, but it's not something that works for me. I used to get a fair bit of buyers remorse for all the times bets were pressed up on a hit and did not hit again before the hand ended. It felt like a lost opportunity take profit off the table. On choppy tables it felt like this was happening more often than it wasn't (I'm admitting to being in full confirmation bias mode here, but it is what it is).

So what I've opted to move towards instead which always resonated well with me was to adopt a form of Heavy's dominant number approach which I apply to the press schedules for sister numbers, Until recently, I would do this with a full press on the first number to hit, and a more conservative press on the sister number until I reached another decision point in the press schedule. But I found I was getting into the same situation as with the collect/press where that first hit would come in and never repeat before the hand ended. So what I've been doing instead lately is now waiting for the first number to hit a second time before doing a full press.

From there, I think of the press schedules in terms of a repeating sequence. Generally, my press schedule starts from that initial bet size after the regression (in this case $18) and proceeds until I get to 10x of that bet (so, $180 in this case). Then I repeat the press cycle all over again until I reach 10x of that starting amount ($1800 in this case).

So with that said, here is the press schedule I use on my 6 and 8 after a regression to $18 each.

FIrst hit on both numbers go to $30

The first hit on a number at $30 goes to $60
A hit on the sister number goes first to $42, then to $60 on the next hit

From the $60 level, I do the following on both numbers
From $60, go to $90
From $90, go to $120
From $120, go to $180

At $180, the dominant number sequence starts all over again
First hit on both numbers goes to $300
The first hit on a number at $300 goes to $600
A hit on the sister number goes first to $420, then to $600 on the next hit

From $600, go to $900
From $900, go to $1200
From $1200, go to $1800

Repeat the same for the $1800-$6000 range, at which point we're at table max. The size of my cojones on that day will determine whether I go from $3000 right to $6000 on the dominant number hit, or take a more conservative route of $3000 - $4200 - $6000 and even whether I succumb to the urge at $4200 to drop $100 and collect $5000 at least one time. I hope to test this in Biloxi next month to have a real world answer to my dilemma here.

[heavy]

Note for the more aggressive or larger players out there - on any of the abover $18 plays - you can easily convert them to your bet size by simply adding zeros to the bets. $18 becomes $180 or $1800, etc. 'nuff said. You already knew that.

[r_ventura_23]

I will go with $15 table since finding lower is almost impossible to find now.

$18 Same bet
$18 drop 3 go to $42
Drop $1 Collect $50
Go to $90
Collect $105
Press to $180
Press to $300
Press to $420
Drop $10 collect $500
Press to $900

I have stared doing what I call $90 to $180 in 60 seconds. I posted it a while back.

After I power press to $42 I will throw $1 on the hard way, let's say it is the 6. When I get the hit at 42, I will drop $1 and collect $50 and parlay the hard way. If it hits hard again, I will press the 6 to $90 as normal, and take the $90 hard way win and go right to $180. For a measly $1, I can get to $180 quicker.

[chuckindice]

I try to bet the 6/8 on every shooter - to keep paint on the brush, as Ed says. My low-risk (low-reward) strategy is this:

1. $12 on the 6 and 8 (-$24)
2. Collect first 2 hits (+$4)
3. On 3rd hit, press both to $18 (+$6)
4. On 4th hit, I toss $3 to press both to $30 (+$3)
5. Now I have a $30 6 and 8 at zero risk for that shooter.

The big problem here is that most shooters 7-out between 1 and 4 hits, leaving me with somewhere between a $10 loss (1 hit) and a $3 gain (4 hits).

I must say, after reading Heavy's $18 6/8 strategy, I'm interested in giving that a try. Slightly more initial risk quickly turns into a much bigger payday with the same small number of hits. (Thanks, Heavy.)

[r_ventura_23]

I very rarely won in craps, when I played a min. 6 and 8 and raised it slowly.

Now I try to get them to $42 and quickly as possible, and I started to win much more often. Collecting those two greens for $1 and then pressing even heavier have been the keys to my success.

[HowieHops]

I suppose this line of thinking is a bit of a process, I have never had a perceived comfort of this type of progression. I mean I am not aware of any advantage shooters to whom I would attempt this type of progression in my sphere of play. They are probably out there, but I don't know who they are as of yet. I certainly hope to be one of them! lol

The four hit 6 & 8 progression that I learned from Heavy in KC has been an epiphany for me. In the three trips I have been able to play over the holiday period I have hit that progression three times and nearly four.

I have in the past imagined making these huge pressed runs on the 6 & 8, from $60 to $120, $120 to $240 and $240 to $480 and beyond. Just never felt confident to completely go for it, I was more concerned about racking profit, not letting what was in front of me get away.

Something I first witnessed about 30 years ago I suppose has tilted me in that direction, I was in Tunica, can't recall exactly which property. I had been playing Blackjack with my ex-wife and decided to head to the craps table. As I arrived at the table so did this rather striking older gentleman, I am going to guess at that time he was near my current age today. He was wearing a black leather jacket that had the American Flag on the back and pulled out one of those bill length leather wallets that was absolutely stuffed full of $100 bills. He bought in for what looked like $2K and when the dice got to him he went on one hell of a hand. I had not seen or heard of advantage play at that time so I don't recall a lot of what his shot looked like, but I do recall how I didn't understand how he was going about his hand.

He had a nice long hand, even me as a newbie was making some good money for the pretty basic pass line and place bets I was making. What I didn't understand about him was he was hitting bets and pressing, pressing, pressing running up huge size bets. However he was NEVER taking anything off the table. I kept thinking to myself, what is he trying to do, where is he trying to go???

Well yall know how all that ended, the Devil eventually made the scene and all those HUGE stacks of pressed bets were swept away and he not taken advantage of any of it.

It definitely had a lasting effect on me, hmm terminal case of Gnat Balls???? LMAO

Hops

[Rickhem]

The 6 and 8 are my meat and potatoes. They are nearly all I bet, and without fail my first bets every session.

I prefer $10 tables, and freely admit to having gnat-balls the overwhelming majority of the time. I will typically buy in with 3 or 4 hundred, which will let me bet on 10 shooters, and still be able to leave with about half my buyin on a catastrophic bad session.

I start with a $12 bet on the 6 and 8, working. That’s 10 possibilities in my favor, and six against me. If I give the dealer a green, I get a white back. On the first hit, I press both numbers to $18 each, and get two more whites back. Next hit will have me giving back those three whites, and pressing both numbers to $30 each. Upon getting that third hit, I regress both bets to $12 each, and collect $71. Then the whole thing starts over again.

It’s super simple, very much a low roller strategy, but it works. I’ve had shooters with hot hands take me through that cycle three times on a single hand. I’ve also pushed past the regression step and pressed another level to $48 each, and occasionally $78 each, but those lose so often for me that I have no confidence in them.

There’s a confidence factor that goes along with this progression for me, such that even a come out seven costing me my working place bets just becomes part of the hysteresis of the session, and I’ll go right back with working place bets. It’s proved successful for me enough that my bets don’t feel like chasing or desperation.

I have tried this on $15 and $25 tables, with mixed success, and honestly, my confidence isn’t quite there yet at those levels. I know that isn’t logical, but losing half of a 3-4 hundred buyin isn’t as psychologically damaging as dropping half of an 8 hundred to 1K buyin.

So that’s my system. Once I can lock up a $100 profit, I mentally segregate that and bet with the rest. For me, the feeling of “beating the casino” is satisfaction enough, with the entertainment that happens at the craps tables, some free drinks, and the overall experience, makes it worthwhile.

[Big O]

I saw an interesting 6&8 betting strategy in Vegas tonight. A guy bet 30-5&9 and 60 6&8. Any hits on the five and nine he would use the pay out to full press the 8 or the 6 ( pressed the 8 with nine hits and the 6 with 5 hits. The first hand saw the 9 hit 3 times in a row. Each time he pressed the 8. I’m thinking you should be pressing the 9. Next roll the pressed up 8 hit.

[Mr Hardways]

My 6&8 strategy is as follows for a $15 table; I use this strategy when I have the dice.
Place the 6&8 for $30 each; when one of them hits it pays $35. I give the dealer an extra dollar and tell them “place me $96 across including the point.” Once I’m across I utilize a mid press strategy as I hit my place numbers. This is on top of my pass line bet and 1X odds.
If I’m betting on another shooter I’ll start at $18 6&8. First hit pays $21 I give the dealer $3 extra and tell them “press my 6&8 to $30 each”. Second hit I give the dealer an extra dollar and say “$96 across. In this situation I’ll either same bet the first 2 hits then go into mid press or mid press from the start. In this situation I do not have a line bet on the shooter.
Here is the progressions I use once I’m $96 across.
6 or 8: 18, 30, 42, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 300, 450, 600, 900, 1200, 1800, 2400
5 or 9: 15, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, 125, 200, 350, 500, 1000, 2000
4 or 10: 15, 25, 50, 100, 200, 300, 500, 1000, 2000

[220Inside]

My 6&8 strategy is as follows for a $15 table; I use this strategy when I have the dice.
Place the 6&8 for $30 each; when one of them hits it pays $35. I give the dealer an extra dollar and tell them “place me $96 across including the point.” Once I’m across I utilize a mid press strategy as I hit my place numbers. This is on top of my pass line bet and 1X odds.
If I’m betting on another shooter I’ll start at $18 6&8. First hit pays $21 I give the dealer $3 extra and tell them “press my 6&8 to $30 each”. Second hit I give the dealer an extra dollar and say “$96 across. In this situation I’ll either same bet the first 2 hits then go into mid press or mid press from the start. In this situation I do not have a line bet on the shooter.
Here is the progressions I use once I’m $96 across.
6 or 8: 18, 30, 42, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 300, 450, 600, 900, 1200, 1800, 2400
5 or 9: 15, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, 125, 200, 350, 500, 1000, 2000
4 or 10: 15, 25, 50, 100, 200, 300, 500, 1000, 2000

Not a big fan of the across bet, especially on random shooters, but that's a story for another day.

When you have the dice and get that first hit, why go $96 across, including the point, versus just going across, not including the point, and putting the 15/18 that would have been placed on the point as additional odds behind the line? You're shortchanging yourself by placing the point and with the long way back to profitability after spreading across on that first hit, every dollar really counts.

[Moe Bettor]

Have to agree with 220. It's your thing, but IMO you're not getting value from yr. early play and you're leaving yrself hanging
over a precipice. I would be tempted if I was going $96..because that's what you're heading for anyway..to take profit and
add it to 6 and 8 in a kind of marching soldier play. Just keep moving towards the high probs 6 and 8. In two hits you could
have them stacked up nicely, get a nice money shot and regress.

[Mr Hardways]

My 6&8 strategy is as follows for a $15 table; I use this strategy when I have the dice.
Place the 6&8 for $30 each; when one of them hits it pays $35. I give the dealer an extra dollar and tell them “place me $96 across including the point.” Once I’m across I utilize a mid press strategy as I hit my place numbers. This is on top of my pass line bet and 1X odds.
If I’m betting on another shooter I’ll start at $18 6&8. First hit pays $21 I give the dealer $3 extra and tell them “press my 6&8 to $30 each”. Second hit I give the dealer an extra dollar and say “$96 across. In this situation I’ll either same bet the first 2 hits then go into mid press or mid press from the start. In this situation I do not have a line bet on the shooter.
Here is the progressions I use once I’m $96 across.
6 or 8: 18, 30, 42, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 300, 450, 600, 900, 1200, 1800, 2400
5 or 9: 15, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, 125, 200, 350, 500, 1000, 2000
4 or 10: 15, 25, 50, 100, 200, 300, 500, 1000, 2000

Not a big fan of the across bet, especially on random shooters, but that's a story for another day.

When you have the dice and get that first hit, why go $96 across, including the point, versus just going across, not including the point, and putting the 15/18 that would have been placed on the point as additional odds behind the line? You're shortchanging yourself by placing the point and with the long way back to profitability after spreading across on that first hit, every dollar really counts.

I wouldn’t bet this way on random rollers; on them I’d hold off betting anything on them. After watching a new shooter throw the dice a couple times I’ll evaluate wether they’re worth investing or not by seeing how well they control the dice. When it comes to my rolls my reason for placing the point is mainly to simplify things for me and the dealers. There’s no swapping place bets and when I have a new point number; the place bet on the previous point number will pay better when I roll it the next time. It’s just my way of playing the game; more often than not I walk away with a nice profit.

[220Inside]

I'm a little confused as you did outline how you bet on other shooters, starting with $18 6/8, to $30 each on the first hit, then to $96 across, collect two hits then start pressing.

The dealers can handle not placing the point, but it's obviously up to you on how you want to bet your own money. I would not be doing it this way, but that's just me.

We've hijacked this post enough at this point, so I'll stop commenting on this in the thread. If you want to discuss further, I would suggest starting a new discussion post

Thanks for your first posts. Looking forward to more.

[memo]

how about this...(I am copying and adapting to my style)
Not sure if it is even worth posting. You need a big bank roll. That being said, it is nice to see some betting stragities on the board again. This is a fun one.

2500 buy in
60 dollar 6,8 working
if point becomes 6,8 collect 70 and regress table minimum inside. (ten dollar table is best, 15 is OK..25 minimum, just regress to 30 dollar 6 or 8, 25 dollar 5 or 9) . Hit and press favorite play.
Note: You can start at 30, 6,8 Then adjust all other bets, however the reduction is not as impactful.

if 5,9 becomes the point, lay it for 150..regress when hit 6 or 8...Or three tosses (which ever comes first) Reduce or remove lay.
4,10 point, lay for 200, then same as above.

Vulnerability and reason for 2500 buy in.
The come out 7 of course..
replace a loss of the 6,8 at 150...Yup..also 300 each if they go down again, and so on.

Shooter makes his point..
Loose the lay.
Continue with remaining bets, not working on the come out.
Don't pass bet, same as lost lay bet+. You can lay odds depending on point and progression through hand, shooter, etc.
Any losses are bet progressed to recoup total losses.

This strategy is based pretty much on due number theory. The fact that most hands are short. And flow of the game. Kinda like taking a don't side perspective and adapting to do side player.

I am not sure if I will put it into play, however, I have been war gaming it quite a bit. The volatility is obvious. I have found that besides making your rear end pucker occasionally, it is a surprisingly good play.
I have war gamed this for hours on end..I only got to the 600, 6,8 once..(1200 bet yikes). It can happen.
The other pucker issue is with a don't pass series of 7,11 come out. This also happened once, when it does happen, it is quite fast. Like, what just happened?

If I decide to try this live, I will have an additional buy in, in my pocket.

Memo

[DarthNater]

Memo,
Interesting play, perhaps a $240 No Four or No Ten on the Come-out to address that come out 7? Use your best 6/8, no Four set. Get the 6/8 hit and go to $66 inside and pull the lay or cut it in half.

That 5/9 lay is basically a cousin of the One Hit Can't Miss, so maybe leave up enuf lay to include placing a DC - once it travels, you have all kinds of options, DN8R