7's can't hurt if you can avoid the 10 (or 4)

[mrmidi]

A 10 can only come 3 ways (only 2 ways if you hedge the hard 10) so if you can find a set with toss mechanics to just avoid the 10 (or 4) for TWO HITS INSIDE, you are golden.
Let's say I lay the 10 for $300. If a 7 comes it pays $150 (minus a $7 vig) so that's $143.
Enough to cover $135 on placing the 4 thru 9. Looking for only 2 hits to pay $70 or $83 (if a 4 hits).
NOW TAKE DOWN THE LAY and the $25 4 and use house $ for $66 inside, pressing and expanding
back out to the 4 and 10 with hits. The only hole in this is if you get smacked on an early 10 bankroll killer. So finding a set and toss that AVOIDS the 10 is key. And only leaving it up for 2 hits is key. Been working for me for years where I'm comfortable with a $500 lay 10 and $220 inside working the come outs. 6/4, 4/6 with a LH yuri from SR 1 or 2 works great for me. I test it first on a trip with $100 lay and $24 each 6 and 8 and sometimes if it's smacking the 10, I'll switch to the X6 (2,3 in back). Much easier to do than avoiding big red.

[220Inside]

Do you work on the come out?

There's a fairly steep recovery if you get a whack on the lay early in the session. Do you alter this at all for recovery, say to leave the lay up and squeeze out a couple more hits at $35/49 take a couple of bigger bites into the recovery before making the switch to $66 inside?

There are ways to improve on this by switching sets; 10 avoidance set for those first two hits, then switch to your best inside set.

[mrmidi]

I did say in my example that the come outs are working. As long as the hedge is up, I always keep them working. I very rarely get killed getting the 10 picked off, as long as It's my toss and I'm comfortable with the table. And yes, after 2 hits, its house $. Lay comes down and regress to $66 inside. So now I use my go-to inside set the 4/2, 2/4 and sometimes the 3V. If the 10 gets killed early, I don't replace it. I leave the place bets up and try to recoup as much as possible. I will do it all again after a 7 out and it's my turn again.
I like to play from 5am till 8am to try and get the dice back quickly when its quiet. Sometimes if I use a hard way set, I get a lot of 4/3 7's so I may use it to just keep the lay 10 up for the come out and turn the place bets off - but rarely.

[Billionaireben]

For a random roller, avoiding the 10 for one roll isn't too hard; but it stings when you lose (doesn't it always.) This is the same reason for regression, randomly you should win 75% of the time if you only need 1 inside number (18 ways to roll an inside number, 6 ways to roll a 7) and a skilled shooter maybe gets it 80% of the time (anybody keep long term numbers on this, I'd love to hear your results.)

Personally, as a skilled shooter; I like laying 5 & 9 for comeout rolls. Either a stretched lay bet for $1 each vig refunded on bets taken down or any comfortable bet if vig is only on wins. The reason for this is that the 7's & 11's setting has no ways to make a 5 or 9 if on axis, as long as it works in practice sessions; it's worth bringing out with actual money risked. A good roll may bang out four 7's that pay 2/3 of the 5 and 9 lay bets (minus vig), a bad roll would lose when a 5 or 9 is established as the point and you take down the losing side. Again, it's only advantageous if you're a confirmed skilled shooter; but with vig on win only it's still not a bad bet even random. I don't know if any of the vig on win only places allow stretched lay bets, $42 lay each is about the max; pays $8 more.

[Parson]

Id rather work the 4 or 10 for 150 on the come out, but instead of placing it, hop it. … thro it hard and then make you place bets. Less risk … and your shooting to win. 10$ at 15 to 1, or 20 pays ya your 300. If ya toss it hard then 30 to one. Less initial risk than when you toss that ten and lose you lay, then pso with place bets. Of course you can hop the sevens …..

Hop the 7s on the come out for 30, do it twice, then shoot for inside pass … then the casino gave you your money for your lay hedge.

[Crapscrusher]

Here are my sets that toss my fewest easy 4's or fewest easy 10's over my last 1,000 logged L/R practice tosses:

FEWEST EASY 10's ... FEWEST EASY 4's (26-26 set = twos on top w/ 6 facing shooter)
26-26 , 43 ............... 21-21 , 43
54-54 , 43 .............. 53-53 , 43
24-42 , 44 .............. 21-62 , 44
26-12 , 44 .............. 23-32 , 44
54-35 , 44 .............. 32-32 , 44
56-65 , 44 .............. 51-15 , 44
12-56 , 45 .............. 53-45 , 44
14-42 , 45 .............. 21-56 , 45
26-51 , 45 .............. 41-15 , 45
35-24 , 45 .............. 45-23 , 45
36-65 , 45 ............... 53-24 , 45
54-23 , 45 .............. 62-51 , 45
12-15 , 46 .............. 63-32 , 45

The problem is that the top six sets all have 7's rolling over 21.4% of the time, so turns won't be very long. About 5 rolls per turn, on average.

[DarthNater]

The problem is that the top six sets all have 7's rolling over 21.4% of the time, so turns won't be very long. About 5 rolls per turn, on average.

So, I'd run them thru Bonetracker and look for crossed sixes with less sevens on axis, DN8R

[Tgold]

Good thread mrmidi.
I like the beginning of your wagering regime (Sans the inside plc bets). Somewhat similar to my approach as I generally wager a Lay and or a Dc as my MO.

My preference is to start off with a Low lay for partial amount of my 1st dc going high. Then remove low lay and try to send a second/larger DC toward the lower end (<=4). I give myself a couple tries to get this larger DC to go low, then choose the best DC and hedge the remaining less-desirable DCs with a partial buy bet on the DO side. Personally, my Don't wagering paradigm is from the perspective there are good, better, and best places for the DC to travel. In other words: 4>5>6. I then try to roll to the other end of the spectrum (Low or high as needed to avoid my dc), as I'm not as precise of shooter as some. I keep it simple and primarily have 3 Goto sets: High/Not7, High/7s, Low/Not7s). Sometimes I get favor and catch a D winner in the chute during my attempt(s) to send it to the 4.

However, note if I get that initial slightly-smaller DC traveling to 10 then I stop there and simply try to toss low til i roll through a 7.
Sometimes it doesnt work quite like I have sketched out above(or in my mind), though it does more times than not.

Thx again mrmidi/good thoughts everyone.

[Phiberoptik]

I keep a copy of bone tracker on my cell when I am at the casino, tracking the number of hits for each number. In this way I use my intuition to guess when I have a hunch about the seven showing up on the come-out. I prefer to lay on the the inside numbers since they pay greater than the 4/10. And I press up the winning lays to take advantage of those back-to-back 7 rolls. The 4/10 just don't justify the risk of losing more to gain less. My answer to coming out ahead is going heavy on the first two rolls after the come-out for big hits and then regressing down to what I've won. From there I alternate between pressing and collecting. More than anything else, track the 7. In the long run it's going come out in just as you'd expect and just as it should. It the short-term, though, anything can and will happen.

[Tgold]

Good thoughts Phiberoptik.

More than anything else, track the 7. In the long run it's going come out in just as you'd expect and just as it should. It the short-term, though, anything can and will happen.

Well stated and I concur.

All the best,