What's your betting strategy?

[heavy]

Okay, I'll admit it. One of the most frustrating things about teaching the seminars - and particularly when it comes to teaching betting strategies - was the fact that no matter how well a particular strategy worked out in the dealer school - most attendees quickly fell back into their old habits once they're playing a live game.

The six and eight place guys place the six and eight. The three point molly guys play the place and come. The hoppers and proppers hop and prop. The hedgers hedge and the power pressers power press. So let's just be clear about this. Under the right circumstances ANY betting strategy can pretty much be a winner. But what all of us need is a consistent winning strategy. Let's hear your forumla for winning - and while we're at it - tell us if you REALLY play that way.

[Michael]

When I'm shooting: $5 pl $10 odds,$22 inside.Three hits then press 50% each hit.Turn me off after two crap numbers in a row or a number that hasn't hit in a long time.After qualifing a shooter three converted come bets $10-$12.Three hits then 50% press same turn off.No pl.Yes this is the way I play now.I'm working my way to $44 inside for myself when a little more confidence is built.
Keep Rolling
Michael

[memo]

Of late, I have really subscribed to ISR...
On my self, I will go 160 across (130 or 135 with pass/odds, depending on the number)
Drop to 44 inside after two hits. I will not press again for another 6-8 hits. I want to get as much off the table as possible based on a hand of average length. If things go beyond that, I am positioned to take advantage of it.

Ideally, I would go three hits before the regression, but have been burned enough to be cautious before doing this.

Sometimes at a five dollar table, if things are working well, I will place the 4 and 10 as a seperate bet and press them as they hit, tryng to get to green chip level...It can sure add some excitement to the game.
Ten bucks can really go a long way to satisfy the gambler in me. I would like to say I have some sort of trigger to do this (Like MP uses for field bets) But its really how I feel about my shooting and what has been rolling at the time.

Memo

[heavy]

This is a "sometimes" strategy for me that sort of has the same effect as memo's $10 four and ten play he adds. You'll need to track what numbers hit because you're not going to do a lot of pressing early on. Start out with $64 across. If you get a hit on an inside number it's "same bet." But if the four or ten hit you automatically go to $25 on that number. After three hits you come down on everything except the three numbers that you got paid on. From there you press every other paying hit.

[Americraps]

I've been WOTCO with $162 across for 2 hits then $54 across. Over the past two years, I seem to have a propensity for CO7s and after last night, I am abandoning WOTCO. Last night I had 5 CO7s, yes thats 5 of them. Hard to recover when doing regression after that and I lost $560 even though my srr last night was an even 6 and my box to 7 was 4.45.

[Americraps]

Oops check that box to 7 was 4.19

[$5Bill]

A Midnight Run After Practice


I was with Americraps last night. We went out to the casino after a 3 hour practice session at his house. Before we left, I had made $900 (pretend money) on a $300 by-in on his home craps table. Americraps kept banging out the inside numbers and that's what I was betting. So when we got to the real casino at midnight, I bought in for $100. Amercraps got the dice and I went $44 inside and he went across. He tossed the 7 and we lost. I didn't replace it. I'll let Americraps tell his side of the story if he wants. For the rest of the 2 hours we were there, I just played a $10 don't bet. I got all of my money back plus an extra $61+. I think if we would have played small to test out the casino tables first, everything would have turned out great and we would have made a lot of money. Americraps shooting got a lot better and there was another guy that was banging out the numbers.
------------------------------------------------------
Well after last night, I slept in until the early afternoon. I sat around for a while and then got hungry. I thought of getting a free meal at Grand Victoria so off I went for an late lunch/early dinner. I had no intentions of playing but you know how that goes. After I ate, I went aboard and to my surprise they had two $5 tables and one $10 table going. I even saw my spot open at SL1 at one of the $5 tables. I bought in for a $100. Was it ever comfortable playing at a $5 table at the Grand Victoria again. It was 3:45pm when I got my chips. I asked the dealer, "When did they start having $5 tables?" "Oh about 2 hours ago,"he replied. "Are they going to start having $5 tables all the time?" I asked the dealer. He said, "It beats me, I don't know." My play was $5 on the don't and a $6, 6 and 8 for one hit and down. Sometimes I didn't even bother putting the don't bet down. It worked great and my shooting was right on with this $5 don't and placing the 6 and 8 Play. I guess I was still a little worn out from last night because I left after 45 minutes. I walked away with another $43+ in my pocket. So after our midnight run last night and this afternoon, I am up $104+. Now I have something to play with.

$5Bill

[Golfer]

Bill, why didn't you tell Americraps to hop the red? Did you try the All,Tall, Small?????

Was it crowded? Just curious.


Golfer

[$5Bill]

Golfer

We Played at the Grand Victoria last night between Midnight and 2am. We had just finished practicing for 3 hours over on Americraps table and he wasn't throwing any 7's at his house. But when we got to the Grand Victoria the 7's started coming out. We had set up our play plan beforehand but it didn't work when we started playing at the GVC. They don't have the All, Tall, Small bet in Elgin. All 3 tables were open at midnight but they closed one of them down around 1:15am which left 2 still open.

There was plenty of room at both tables last night and when I went back this afternoon at 3:45pm, they still had all 3 tables open and plenty of room to play at all of the tables. But when the word gets out that they have $5 tables now, I'm sure the tables will fill back up.

$5Bill

[heavy]

A classic case of using up all of your bullets before the battle. (joke)

[Americraps]

Heavy,
My bullets were rubber at the casino.

[Iceman95]

Still working on a "system". Although, I like the dave's system which I would like to try it or something similiar. When I'm on a table w/a random I will go on the dark side. A DI I will go w/place and pass bets. I set limits which dictate my betting.

$5 Bill,
When are you and Americraps going back to the VIC? I would like to meet you guys and throw some dice. Has Rivers hurt the Vic? Sounds like table mins are awesome. Do know if it gets crowded?

[$5Bill]

I played today for a short time after I went grocery shopping. I played the Don't for $10 and came home with $21+. The groceries are paid for. How did I get that extra $1 you ask? Well on a lost, I'll come back and go up a $1 and make it look like an $11 Don't on the next come-out.


$5Bill

[heavy]

Okay, this thread more or less died out. I know there are a lot of folks reading the board so let's hear it from some of you non-posters. What's your betting strategy?

Here's another twist on regressions that starts with $44 inside. On the first hit on any number press the six and eight to $18 each and bring down the place bets on the five and nine. Next hit pays $21. I like to go directly to $30 each on the six and eight, however the smarter move is to collect $21 and say "same bet." Once I get to $30 each on the six and eight I like to press only the number that hits - so I might end up with $120 on the six and still be at $30 on the eight. If THAT happens I'll probably take the eight down as it is not "earning it's keep.

What's your strategy? Let's hear it.

[memo]

I have been playing around with Dave's system and for the life of me, I can not get it to pay off. I have even messed with Heavy's modification of it. I sure would like to know if anyone is having success.

I am not using it live yet since I have no faith in it. Only simulations with wincraps. It would be nice to have something to use at the table while waiting to shoot, or just killing time. Please, I know that systems do not work in the long run....But this sure looks like a good place to discuss one.

Some time ago in a land far away..er, uh..a site now gone away, a guy used to post under the name of curious. He described a don't system that he used...It was widely criticized by board members. So much so, that it was pretty much discarded. The criticism had more to do with the way he explained the math. ACDOC got involved and things went south from there. It was all semantics, and who was right from that stand point. No one really cared much if the system worked or not.

He called it a 'continuous don't come bet'..or something like that. As with most things that take up space, I have mislaid the thread print out....But I have the system, and with the help of wincraps have been playing with it.
It is a wild ride. The volatility is like nothing that I have ever experienced. It does loose, but that is because, the way I am using it...
The progressive increase in bets, do not always keep up with the losses incurred in a streak. (It's only weakness) Over all, it wins...It grinds out an overall win....With a ton of volatility.

Curious recommended a two thousand dollar buy in and to have two to three more in your pocket...It is not for the faint of heart. Most of the time you get a 50 to 150 win...Every now and again, I have seen 800-900 in active bets with incurred losses of 500-600 to get there, before the seven shows. In a case like this, it may loose 200-250, for the hand. I have never gone past my 2k buy in.

I have purposely not put in much detail about the actual betting..(It is not that difficult to do, but hard to track) I will if anyone is interested...This kind of thing is interesting to me for something to 'dink around with'. I am giving thought to building a separate bankroll in order to give it a try.

Heavy, this may take your original thread a bit a field. I can do it elsewhere if you want...But only if someone else is interested, and wants to play.

Memo

[heavy]

No problem, Memo. I did not think we were particularly rough on old Curious, but he certainly thought we were abusing him. Funny thing - I think he was treated similarly over on Wong's BJ21 site, where he claimed to be running a pro female blackjack team made up entirely of elevens on a one to ten scale. Curious departed in something of a huff, deleting all of his posts before hitting the exit. Honestly, I don't recall what his strategy was.

[Americraps]

Hey memo,
Would you mind posting that strategy?

[Kelph]

memo,

I had this from another site and it's by curious. Is this what you're talking about? I've never tried it.

Kelph

Okay, you guys (and gals) are going to call me crazy but I did this last night in Biloxi.

I was playing the don't pass and then playing the don't come every roll of the dice. If a don't come number was taken off I increased the unit size by 1. I took 2X odds on both the don't pass and don't come.

I was getting 3,4,5 numbers with don't come before the 7 out.

SOOO, I played the don't pass. Then I placed all the numbers except the point. I bought the 4 and 10.

then I played the don't come every roll. When a place bet hit I took the place bet and the winnings and used them toward the 2X odds.

This was the most fun I have had at craps. The don't come would go on the felt and I would get paid more than the don't come bet and use that toward the 2X odds. Unless an existing don't come was taken off, in which case I increased the next don't come bet by 1 unit and increased the existing place bets by 1 unit.

This pattern happened a LOT: Play don't pass for $40. Point is established. Then buy the 4 and 10 for $40 and place everything else, except the point, for $40 ($42 on 6/8 obviously). Then play the don't come every roll.
And roll: 10, 9, 8, 4, 6, 7
10,4,5,6,9,7
10,4,9,7
6,9,10,4,8,7
....

What I noticed about this was that during those horrible rolls where the shooter was rolling repeating numbers but not the point, being paid $410 before the don't come bets started coming off helped absorb the losses of the horrible roll.

True, sometimes the 7 came right away and I lost several place bets, plus the don't come that was trying to get to the felt.

I haven't worked the math out for this but I think you only have to hit 2 place bets to cover all the other place bets. Say you play the DP for $40 and lay to win 2X odds. Then you place all the numbers but the point for $40. And a don't come bet comes to the felt landing on the 10, and another on the 9. That pays $136, you now have $40 + laying to win $80 odds on the DP. You also have two $40 don't come each laying to win $80 odds. You have 3 $40 place bets. The $136 covered them. A 7 out pays $360 - $120 for the 3 lost place bets, but you already made $136.

I'm sure one of the math boyz will rip this to pieces but it was a FUN way to play and I cashed out $1200.

I was never down very much and got paid winnings a lot.

[heavy]

Interesting. I frequently place the six and eight when playing the Don'ts. Never even considered buying the four and ten. Something to think about.

[memo]

Basically, it is a don’t pass with continuous don’t come bets and lay odds. Upping the bets as you go. The idea being that since seven is the most prevelant number…There will be a hand ending seven that will pay back any lost bets and then some.

That was the beginning of the rub….Everyone focused on the idea that at some point you will max out the bets due to table limits…And the fight was on. Please, I have no ax to grind…I am the messenger, and am open to discussion. Not interested in defending anything.

Curious was much more aggressive than I…So he detailed a scaled down version for me. (I believe that is why on long streaks, it can’t always keep up with all the losses)

Start out with a ten dollar Don’t pass. When the point is established, lay odds and place a ten dollar don’t come. If two or three is rolled collect payout, but no change. If a seven or eleven is rolled, replace bet..no change.

Odds. To win twenty. 6,8 lay 24. 5,9 lay 30. 4,10 lay 40
Do this continuously until hand ending seven or a number gets hit.
In which case, you immediately increase the base bet to twenty.
The odds increase to win thirty. increase 6,8 by twelve..(36 bucks)
5,9 by fifteen (45) and 4,10 by twenty (60). It is easy to extrapolate from there. Base bet 30. Lay to win 40..60,75,100.
Even with this reduced level of play….You gotta have a bank roll to stay in it...

When there is a hand ending seven, or a come out seven that triggers a payout of your bets….Reset to the base bet of ten. Lather rinse repeat.

DP BET 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80

Win 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90
Lay 6/8 24 36 48 60 72 84 96 108
5/9 30 45 60 75 90 105 120 135
4/10 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180
I have a sheet that goes up to 300 base bet, but it will not come across to here. You get the idea...A cheat sheet is helpful. I cannot make this thing look right.

Before you judge, get out wincraps and give it a try..It is not as bad as one may think
If you get a series of repeaters, and loose heart, it will be quite a looser. My simulations have had hands up to 49 tosses and I still came out positive for the game. I have never gotten half way through the progression….It does however, have a pucker factor..

Another version of this is to only raise the base bet on the number that gets repeated. i.e. If the eight has been hit twice and the base is 30, lay 48. Now the 9 is rolled. Increase to 20 base, and 45 lay…etc.
I have done this at Dice Coach’s house, a DI had the dice. (he was shooting to avoid the seven). It is not as hard to track as one may think, and lowers the volatility. There is also, no way you will ever reach table limits.
Well I guess, if one could hit a number 30 times in a hand with no come out seven.
By the way…Dice Coach was not a big fan..(He had all kinds of alternative systems)…But this progression always worked. And when the seven shows, the payouts are worth the suspense.

I have not even considered doing this as a DI…Yet. I want to understand it better.

Memo