I am looking for a good Hedge system. What i am trying to accomplish is grind out a small win. I usually stay in the table for 3 to 4 hour even the table is cold. I enjoy the game too much beside i live in Houston the closest casino is 3 hr away so i go maybe 2 a month if i am free. I used to play with pass line with free odds before i have taken some big hit couple of time close to 700 each. So i started to play the famous john patrick system. I relalize after 3 to 4 hr i am usually little down or wash. The way i play lot of people give me a negetive vibe. Let me tell you guys how i play so you guys could help me make some adjustment.
Both pass/dontpass with minimum table bets. On the come out if i have a 1000 i usually hot the 7s for 3 dollar and 2 dollar for 11 and 12. Once the point is establish i lay the point with double odds no matter what is the point is and usually i place 17 or 22 inside number working. With 6 and 8 hardways dollar each.if the number is 4 or 10 i usually lay 40 dollar. What i am tring to accomplish is play longer and dont loose everything when the 7 comes out. By the way i play mostly in a 5 dollar table. I usually go to casinos with 800 dollar my loss limit is 300 i walk.
I dont know how to do post properly. So please forgive me if i am not clear enough in this post. With more practice i will get better.
Any good Hedge system
Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater
Re: Any good Hedge system
Lostchele -
I think we have a handle on what you're trying to accomplish. There has been a lot of discussion on similar ideas regarding hedging and grinding out small profits. What you have to understand is that unless you are the shooter and are influencing the dice - you're pretty much going to be playing a "random" game all of the time. That equates to a negative expectation game. You can level out some of the hills and valleys players normally experience over the short run with hedges and grind play - but ultimately the house is going to grind you down.
Couple of things I might suggest to you that will cut down on some of the negative vibe you get. If your focus is on laying odds on the Don'ts, - stop playing the Come Out roll. When the other players see your bet on the Don't Pass they figure you are betting against them and are bringing negative energy to the game. By pass the Come Out and wait for a point to be established. Let's say that point is the five. Now if you want to play the Patrick System play the Don't Come and the Come at the same time. Most players at the table are not astute enough to figure out what you are doing. Your not going to get whipped by the seven or eleven - that's the power of the Patrick System. However, the twelve is going to beat you from time to time. Personally, I would not worry about hedging against the twelve if you're just playing $5 - $10. If you were playing $25 I might consider it - but I think you're fine going bare on it. I'm not sure why you'd place $17 - $22 inside as your exposing yourself to the seven more and your DC action will eventually cover all of the numbers if the hand continues. Lastly, you mention laying double odds. If you can afford it I might suggest you lay $30 odds - regardless of what number is point. That'll pay you $15 on the 4 or 10, $20 on the 5 or 9, and $25 on the 6 and 8.
If I'm completely off track from what you're asking here - let me know. I'm sure some of the other members will have additional comments . . .
I think we have a handle on what you're trying to accomplish. There has been a lot of discussion on similar ideas regarding hedging and grinding out small profits. What you have to understand is that unless you are the shooter and are influencing the dice - you're pretty much going to be playing a "random" game all of the time. That equates to a negative expectation game. You can level out some of the hills and valleys players normally experience over the short run with hedges and grind play - but ultimately the house is going to grind you down.
Couple of things I might suggest to you that will cut down on some of the negative vibe you get. If your focus is on laying odds on the Don'ts, - stop playing the Come Out roll. When the other players see your bet on the Don't Pass they figure you are betting against them and are bringing negative energy to the game. By pass the Come Out and wait for a point to be established. Let's say that point is the five. Now if you want to play the Patrick System play the Don't Come and the Come at the same time. Most players at the table are not astute enough to figure out what you are doing. Your not going to get whipped by the seven or eleven - that's the power of the Patrick System. However, the twelve is going to beat you from time to time. Personally, I would not worry about hedging against the twelve if you're just playing $5 - $10. If you were playing $25 I might consider it - but I think you're fine going bare on it. I'm not sure why you'd place $17 - $22 inside as your exposing yourself to the seven more and your DC action will eventually cover all of the numbers if the hand continues. Lastly, you mention laying double odds. If you can afford it I might suggest you lay $30 odds - regardless of what number is point. That'll pay you $15 on the 4 or 10, $20 on the 5 or 9, and $25 on the 6 and 8.
If I'm completely off track from what you're asking here - let me know. I'm sure some of the other members will have additional comments . . .
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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Mad Professor
Re: Any good Hedge system
Hi Lostchele,
I'm going to take an educated guess here and say that when you take several sessions into consideration, you are losing an average of about $50 per hour.
I'm talking about what your losses average out to.
Is the $50/hour loss-rate close?
MP
I'm going to take an educated guess here and say that when you take several sessions into consideration, you are losing an average of about $50 per hour.
I'm talking about what your losses average out to.
Is the $50/hour loss-rate close?
MP
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lostchele
Re: Any good Hedge system
Thanks a lot. One other thing i live in Houston, tx. The casino i go to usually Isle of Capri or Caushata. I get good comps from caushata. So 80% of the time i got to Cashata. But very few pro goes there. So i am thinking of heading down to Sheverport,la in the future. Which casino is good for craps for to build good comps. Or do you recomend to try all of the casino. I usually play 5 dollar 90% of the time. Also any info about comps in any of those casinos.
Re: Any good Hedge system
At the $5 level - on weekends you'll have a difficult time finding a game - at least after 3PM. The Horseshoe has the most tables. Sam's Town and Boomtown are probably easier on comps. Diamond Jacks has financial issues so I would just forget about them for now. SIA likes El Dorado - second largest number of craps tables in town - I don't think I've ever gotten a comp offer from them. Then again, the El Dorado's parent company and I have had issues in the past - and I was not well thought-of by the prior owners (Hollywood).
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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wild child
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:29 pm
Re: Any good Hedge system
lostchele
HEDGE BETS require the player to wager different amounts on either side of a specific number.
Recently ,for grins, we had examples of bets with small spread between the Don't Come and Placing a wager for a lesser amount $ on the same BOX NUMBER...
Not knowing if you drive your personal vehicle or hop the day trip excursion bus from Houston to Lake Charles / Kinder Louisiana as that may need consideration as to tactical logistics . ( herd mentality vs independent gunslinger ) Weekends via the tour bus allow less flexibility .......
The IRON CROSS by any name may work best if you can afford to risk larger amounts......
For example the $105 UMBRELLA PLAY is a grind that may fit a budget limited in TIME and MONEY.
Place $25 on #5........$30 on #SIX........$30 on #EIGHT .........$20 in THE FIELD
Should the FIVE,SIX or EIGHT show THE FIELD bet is lost kiss off $20
The HOWEVER FACTOR is the FIVE,SIX and EIGHT each pay $35 at that bet level
NET RESULT +$15
OH HAPPY DAY
Should the #'s 3,4, ... NINE. 10,ELEVEN SHOW + $20
The #'s 2 & TWELVE pay DOUBLE and on occasion TRIPLE WOW TALK ABOUT FAT CITY
The UBER
HOWEVER FACTOR is THE SEVEN SHOWING WHILE THIS WAGER IS ACTIVE
and ALL IS LOST
If the IRON CROSS is your game plan, go for ONE SHOT PER SHOOTER AND DOWN to REDUCE BUY IN NEGATIVE CASH FLOW..........Hey , it is a grind..........
Next in the FOOD CHAIN is going up to a NUMBER via the D/C and PLACE BETTING a lesser $amount
so you are insured taking the SPREAD.
Here you have the SEVEN / ELEVEN FILTER FACTOR and that may un nerve many folks.
JUST ME SAYING
W C
HEDGE BETS require the player to wager different amounts on either side of a specific number.
Recently ,for grins, we had examples of bets with small spread between the Don't Come and Placing a wager for a lesser amount $ on the same BOX NUMBER...
Not knowing if you drive your personal vehicle or hop the day trip excursion bus from Houston to Lake Charles / Kinder Louisiana as that may need consideration as to tactical logistics . ( herd mentality vs independent gunslinger ) Weekends via the tour bus allow less flexibility .......
The IRON CROSS by any name may work best if you can afford to risk larger amounts......
For example the $105 UMBRELLA PLAY is a grind that may fit a budget limited in TIME and MONEY.
Place $25 on #5........$30 on #SIX........$30 on #EIGHT .........$20 in THE FIELD
Should the FIVE,SIX or EIGHT show THE FIELD bet is lost kiss off $20
The HOWEVER FACTOR is the FIVE,SIX and EIGHT each pay $35 at that bet level
NET RESULT +$15
OH HAPPY DAYShould the #'s 3,4, ... NINE. 10,ELEVEN SHOW + $20
The #'s 2 & TWELVE pay DOUBLE and on occasion TRIPLE
WOW TALK ABOUT FAT CITYThe UBER
HOWEVER FACTOR is THE SEVEN SHOWING WHILE THIS WAGER IS ACTIVEand ALL IS LOST
If the IRON CROSS is your game plan, go for ONE SHOT PER SHOOTER AND DOWN to REDUCE BUY IN NEGATIVE CASH FLOW..........Hey , it is a grind..........
Next in the FOOD CHAIN is going up to a NUMBER via the D/C and PLACE BETTING a lesser $amount
so you are insured taking the SPREAD.
Here you have the SEVEN / ELEVEN FILTER FACTOR and that may un nerve many folks.
JUST ME SAYING
W C
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Americraps
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
- Location: Elgin, IL
Re: Any good Hedge system
I've been thinking about a new to me don't strategy for a while now for my sr OH toss. Set the all sevens set and bet both the don't and the hard ways. This way, I collect on all primary face hits, double pitches, and some both die off axis tosses. I tried it out last night and made $13 in 3 or 4 hands. I think I would have made more, but lost some on the randies. I came out with the 2v set, then once a point was established, switched to the all seven perm of the HW set. I came out on ace deuce twice and seven and yo once.
I hit at least one hardway on every hand, those were the DPs. I hit 1 PFH that set the 4 as my point. All my seven outs were both die off axis, 61's. I haven't yet wargamed this strategy, but will do so when I finish my current set of books. I am working on 3 books at a time - 1 from SL, SR, and SO.
Has anyone else tried this strategy?
I hit at least one hardway on every hand, those were the DPs. I hit 1 PFH that set the 4 as my point. All my seven outs were both die off axis, 61's. I haven't yet wargamed this strategy, but will do so when I finish my current set of books. I am working on 3 books at a time - 1 from SL, SR, and SO.
Has anyone else tried this strategy?
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!
Re: Any good Hedge system
First time I've even considered it.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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IronCross
Re: Any good Hedge system
Wow. You're in my brain. I did this exactly as you described this last weekend right before Crapsfest started when I was by myself downtown.
Bet: Don't Pass
Comeout: V2 set
Point toss: Hardway set
I had mixed results with my throwing before Crapsfest started, I made my point when I didn't want to twice, won (7 out) twice and hit 1 hardway and that was the last I tried it that I recall. I do like this strategy though.
Bet: Don't Pass
Comeout: V2 set
Point toss: Hardway set
I had mixed results with my throwing before Crapsfest started, I made my point when I didn't want to twice, won (7 out) twice and hit 1 hardway and that was the last I tried it that I recall. I do like this strategy though.
Re: Any good Hedge system
IronCross, All...........
I only use the V-2 set on the DP betting side.
I straight-up set the V-2 set pre-point in hopes of generating a 4 or 10 point.
After the point is set, I AGAIN SET THE V-2 SET WITH A TWIST.
This really works !
Most dice shooters worry about double-pitching....but....What if YOU WANTED TO
DOUBLE PITCH INTO A SEVEN ?
How hard is that to do..................you ask ?
NOT HARD AT ALL....THERE IS A SHOT THAT INDEED DOES DOUBLE-PITCH INTO A SEVEN !
It was posted on this board several Moons ago.....
..........TO BRING UP A SEVEN...V-2 SET AND OPEN THE DICE SEAM, NEAREST TO YOUR BODY,
CREATING A ' V ' WEDGE OPENING BY 1/8TH INCH.
RUN THE PAD OF YOUR THUMB ACROSS THE OPEN SEAM ( LOCKING IN THE V-OPENING ) AND USE YOUR
BIRDIE FINGER TO LOCK-UP THE TOP OF THE BACK SEAM....KEEPING IT TIGHTLY CLOSED.
I then send the dice down the table from the deck.......
The first time ( with NO practice ) that I used this shot, on my home practice table, it generated six 7's
in 11 tries !
W7
I only use the V-2 set on the DP betting side.
I straight-up set the V-2 set pre-point in hopes of generating a 4 or 10 point.
After the point is set, I AGAIN SET THE V-2 SET WITH A TWIST.
This really works !
Most dice shooters worry about double-pitching....but....What if YOU WANTED TO
DOUBLE PITCH INTO A SEVEN ?
How hard is that to do..................you ask ?
NOT HARD AT ALL....THERE IS A SHOT THAT INDEED DOES DOUBLE-PITCH INTO A SEVEN !
It was posted on this board several Moons ago.....
..........TO BRING UP A SEVEN...V-2 SET AND OPEN THE DICE SEAM, NEAREST TO YOUR BODY,
CREATING A ' V ' WEDGE OPENING BY 1/8TH INCH.
RUN THE PAD OF YOUR THUMB ACROSS THE OPEN SEAM ( LOCKING IN THE V-OPENING ) AND USE YOUR
BIRDIE FINGER TO LOCK-UP THE TOP OF THE BACK SEAM....KEEPING IT TIGHTLY CLOSED.
I then send the dice down the table from the deck.......
The first time ( with NO practice ) that I used this shot, on my home practice table, it generated six 7's
in 11 tries !
W7
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oldjoe
Re: Any good Hedge system
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Last edited by oldjoe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Americraps
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
- Location: Elgin, IL
Re: Any good Hedge system
Interesting. I will try that and see if I can make it happen
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!
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oldjoe
Re: Any good Hedge system
.
Last edited by oldjoe on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Americraps
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
- Location: Elgin, IL
Re: Any good Hedge system
I tried the HW/Don't again last night with good results. On two different occaisions I came out on a WOTCO paying HW (DP) and followed up with a PFH seven. I didn't use the 2v for comeouts last night and just stuck with the all sevens set. The other people at the table were not so happy, but the darksider next to me was enjoying my "badness". I knocked myself off once with a $12 lay on the eight, and went to $30 lay on the six. After about 5 or 6 more tosses, I landed a 52 deadcat 2 feet short of the BW. Oops, but I'll take it.
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!