Playing the Dark Side?

[Bushido]

Al_falcons , et all -

Thanks for the response - sorry I asked - too much useless info - for my book -

And people do that stuff ??????????

I was thinking about a small progression...One unit to four units...

[Lineoff]

Count me in on the darkside table take over. Its the best way to meet people and make new friends. Everyone always wishes the darksiders the best of luck.

Lineoff out

[al_falcons]

Al_falcons , et all -

Thanks for the response - sorry I asked - too much useless info - for my book -

And people do that stuff ??????????

I was thinking about a small progression...One unit to four units...

Not a lot you can do on a 4 unit progression, but you could start the fibo, 1 - 1 - 2 - 3 . One thing that I try to do when I do this at the craps table is give yourself a loss maximum PER shooter. Don't let one shooter kill you. If you are only doing 4 steps, then there you go, that is your limit. If you are doing larger one, I personally like 3 steps on any other shooter and 5 steps on myself. I have not shot from the dark side for over a year now, but when I did I HAD to stop somewhere or you just go broke when you get that one hand where you are killing the come out 7 and 11's, or making the point even though you are setting for 7.

[Lineoff]

I agree you have to set a limit. Or things can get really ugly fast. And it always seems that when you hit the table limit 6th or 7th step the 8th would have been your winner. I like to use a 3 or 5 step Grand Martingale. 3 on Randy 5 on my shooting from the darkside. Sometimes MP's CTSL. On the $2 and $5 tables in the upper midwest you don't need a monster bankroll to go hit the 3rd or 5th level and still make a recovery for the session.

Lineoff out.

[Mad Professor]

I was going to ask if you are THE Lineoff from long ago and far away; but your most recent reply confirms that.

Thankfully, rumors that a family of black bears pulled you off of your bike one cold dark upper-midwest night, didn't turn out to be true.

It's good to see you back, Lineoff.


MP

[Jonah]

As MY curiousity is piqued - just WTF is " fibo " !

Fibonacci number, sequence, series.

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597 ...

By definition, the first two numbers in the Fibonacci sequence are 0 and 1, and each subsequent number is the sum of the previous two.

The Fibonacci sequence is named after Leonardo of Pisa, who was known as Fibonacci.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number

[Bushido]

Al_falcons , et all -

Thanks for the response - sorry I asked - too much useless info - for my book -

And people do that stuff ??????????

I was thinking about a small progression...One unit to four units...

Not a lot you can do on a 4 unit progression, but you could start the fibo, 1 - 1 - 2 - 3 . One thing that I try to do when I do this at the craps table is give yourself a loss maximum PER shooter. Don't let one shooter kill you. If you are only doing 4 steps, then there you go, that is your limit. If you are doing larger one, I personally like 3 steps on any other shooter and 5 steps on myself. I have not shot from the dark side for over a year now, but when I did I HAD to stop somewhere or you just go broke when you get that one hand where you are killing the come out 7 and 11's, or making the point even though you are setting for 7.

I always planned on using a stop-loss and would never get in too deep with one shooter...I have much to learn about Craps before I put any real money on the table...I am going to feel very naked at the Crap table next week in Tunica...I play with an edge sometimes in Blackjack so maybe my BJ will carry me while I educate myself on Craps...Thanks for the reply...

[sharkbyte]

Along the lines of the Dark Side...I actually saw this play on youtube (so make of it as you wish). I have tried it in live play about 10 times. One bet only on random shooters. This play is $50.00 thru the Don't Come...then place the number it traveled to for $50.00. If it travels to the 6 or 8 win $8.00. If it travels to the 5 or 9 win $20.00. If it travels to the 4 or 10 win $48.00. If the 7 is tossed it's a push. Also, if the point is made and the bet is still on the board...working on the comeout.

Thoughts?

My results...I have won $50.00 on Ace/Duce. I have lost $50.00 on the 7. I have maybe 3 times the result was a push. The balance then has resulted in small wins. Hit the 5/9 several times. The 10 just once. 6/8 maybe just once or twice.

To much risk for little reward?

While I'm going to explore more of what Al explained, I would like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. Seems kind of interesting to me, with only a cursory look...

[DSS47]

Sharkbyte...

Keep in mind this play where you go thru the DC and then placing the point, really does not help in your rating with the house.

Asked a female boxperson this weekend about this play. She specifically brought up the cancellation of the bets. Which in turn effects your player rating. I knew this going in and really did not worry to much about it. I am not making this play the entire sesson. Just hit and miss.

DSS47

[Mad Professor]

How Effective is a Large-DP w/Half-Sized Place-bet 6 and 8 Strategy?



MP

[House of Orange]

Al Falcons: Would it not be even safer to go to the Bac tables? Less vig than craps and waay less vig than 00 Roulette tables.

[heavy]

Another way to play the fibo is to limit your number of steps - then start over with a higher unit and run the progression again. You'll be in catch-up mode but it can help off-set some of the negatives. Example in a $10 game - You'll need a $1K bankroll and be willing to lose $700 of it on the progression:

$10 - $10 - $20 - $30 - $50 - $80 - stop and reset

$25 - $25 - $50 - $75 - $125 - $200 - get the hell out of Dodge

[Iceman95]

It seems using the fibo system you would need a large bank roll.

[arrgy]

My years have taught me this:

Place Hedge Betting: Going through DC/DP and then placing (especially on 6/8) does not work and defeats the purpose of betting. Why would you weaken your advantage by placing the number? You did the toughest part by avoiding the come out 7/11, it makes no sense.

DP/DC: Mathematically there is no difference. Trend odds say there is a difference. I personally hate DP. I like DC much much better. You are in fact one step closer to a 7. Also, even though I do hear it sometimes, I very rarely hear "Off and On" anymore. Come bets are for suckers, DC bets are for winners.

Hard Way Hedge: This I do like on large amounts, knock off a chance of losing a 4,6,8,10 is always good.

2,3, 12 then 11: Somehow, someway when I ever I win or push with craps it follows up with an 11, and vice versa. I lose with an 11, then a craps shows up. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens a lot for me to notice.

Opposite Box Numbers: This happens a lot as well. 5 is the point, 9 gets rolled at least once. Same with 6/8, 4/10. Don't know why, but if a box number is rolled its usually the sister number Strange.

"7 Out": This one is really strange, so strange that I have changed my betting. When I play, I am focused on my game, however, every once and a while I will listen to other sticks call numbers. Sometimes, one will pop out at me, and bang the next roll on my table is what the other stick had just called. I actually charted it a couple of times and found this happens more than 50% of the time. Didn't matter if it was a box number, craps, or 7.

My most successful Don't betting strategy: Fiob. sequence on 3 different shooters. You are betting that 3 different shooters will not shoot down 3 of your points in a row on either one DC or the DP. The farthest I ever had to go was the 6th shot on shooter 2. If I have a $25 flat bet, I walk with a few hundred each hour.

[sharkbyte]

My most successful Don't betting strategy: Fiob. sequence on 3 different shooters. You are betting that 3 different shooters will not shoot down 3 of your points in a row on either one DC or the DP. The farthest I ever had to go was the 6th shot on shooter 2. If I have a $25 flat bet, I walk with a few hundred each hour.

I would be interested in hearing a more in-depth explanation this, if you don't mind sharing.

Thanks.

[arrgy]

Sure, this came from my oldest uncle who used to play in the wars long ago.

Basically you are betting that three different people can not beat you three times. Now you need the bankroll for it. But what I do is this:

First shooter loose once, repeat bet. Loose 2nd bet, repeat bet. Loose 3rd time. Stop. Wait for next shooter, or even shooter after. Continue with the betting sequence, however steps 4-6 are on shooter 2. Steps 7-9 would be on shooter 3. After a win, reset to originial unit and first shooter.

Usually I do a standard Fibo sequence, or a mini-martingale.

I have found that yes I will get wacked 5-6-7 times or more chasing after a single shooter. However, I have never lost like that to three different shooters in a row. That second different person would win for me. Once my father went all the way to the 9th shot before he won, but he did win. A win could be from a come out 2 or 3. It would reset everything, all flat bets..no odds.

Its very slow, and somewhat boring, but I never had to go beyond step 6 or shooter 2. The thing is you have to stay with either the DP or DC, can't switch between them. A few times I took a big enough bankroll and did BOTH DP and DC, separately. With chips in separate racks on the rail, one for each. Found out that way, that DC did better overall then DP, even though the math is the same. So now I completely switched to DC with quarter units. It eliminated a lot of come out 7s.

At $25 units I averaged around $400 an hour depending on the speed of the game.

[House of Orange]

Can you give some $ figures for your bets: Fibo/MiniM ?

[Iceman95]

arrgy,
how long have you been playing this way? do you play this method regardless of table conditions or look for a cold table?

[arrgy]

Let's see I'm 40ish now, and made my first craps bet in a casino at age 17 (yes I was underage) so how ever many years that is.

The more crowded the table the better because there are more shooters to take advantage of. This system does not really work well on an ice cold table with few shooters. Mainly because I like DC better than DP, and on an ice cold table, the buckshot (2nd shot, or shot after the point was just established), tends to be more of a 7 then any other number which kills the DC better.

What is really funny and annoying is that I am a pretty good dice mechanic myself, and I will shoot from the other side when the dice come to me. My SRR is somewhere around 1:8.5. One night, 20 years ago I was playing at the Taj in A.C. and I was standing next to the stick, and I had the same view of the boxman and dealers as he did. Well another player was in the middle of a really hot roll, and after a call the stick took the dice to the center of the table as he usually does. Then something funny happened, the boxman picked up one die and looked at it, like he was inspecting it, and placed it back down next to the other die, however it had a different number on top. I looked at the boxman, who winked slightly at the stick. I looked down at the dice and on the side cubes facing the stick and the boxman was 7. The dealer slid the dice to the guy who of course sevened out. Then for every single shooter after that I watched as the stick was playing with one die after the throw, and sure enough he presented the shooter with a 7 on the side cubes without fail. I decided to shoot, and the stick did the same to me. On a whim, I just threw the dice and up came the 7. A new stick came into the game, and he did the same thing. When the dice came to me, I set the dice to some random box number on ALL sides, and threw them. And I held the dice for about 30 minutes, every time the stick gave me the dice I reset it to some number. I still do it to this day. If I had known back then in the late 80s, I could have written a ton of books and made lots of money as an author!

[Shiraz]

Hi Arrgy:

House of Orange has already asked you this question. I am only repeating this question with some more details. Kindly explain for Fibo & MiniMart. seperately with examples of your bets in sequence starting with your first bet at $5.00. We will appreciate if you can please explain in detail. Thanks. Sam.