Heavy's 6 and 8 Place to Come Heat Seeker

[heavy]

I've mentioned the "Heat Seeker" before but I'm not sure if I've post any of it's versions (and there are several of them) here on the new forum. This is my original version, which starts out with a Pass Line bet and place bets on the six and eight. It's set up like many "systems," with certain game entry points and betting keys. Don't get confused by it. Take it, tweak it, and make it your own.

Heavy’s 6 and 8 Place to Come “Heat Seeking” Craps Strategy
By Steve “Heavy” Haltom
Copyright 2002 – All Rights Reserved

My Heatseeking Craps Strategy has gotten a lot of positive play through the years. Normally I only share this strategy in my craps clinics, but demand has been high for more information on it, so I thought I’d give you a thumbnail version of how – and why – we play it.

What are your chances of winning at the craps table in a fair game? Even if you are a perfect player with rock-ribbed discipline and played the most conservative of bets, you still have to buck the minimum house edge of 1.41%. But even if there were no house edge your chances in a random game would be no better than 50/50.

The only way to really win at any random game is to take advantage of the trend. Trends are streaks or identifiable patterns. In craps the tables will be trending toward hot or cold perhaps thirty percent of the time. They may actually be hot or cold for another ten percent of the time. The other sixty percent of the time the trend may be choppy with decisions hopping back and forth, both ways. The key to winning is protecting your bankroll during those choppy times, while positioning yourself to take advantage of the next trend.

There are two philosophies regarding betting and trends. The first school of thought says buck the trend. In other words, always bet opposite of the last decision. This might not be a bad move on a choppy table. The second school of thought says follow the trend. When seeking out a hot shooter this is the correct way to play. Let the dice lead the way - and you follow.

The most conservative of betting strategies rely strictly on flat betting either the Pass or Don’t Pass, and the Come or Don’t Come. Many players utilize these bets to follow the trend, betting the same way as the last decision of the dice - or in some instances betting the decision before the last decision. Often times they will play a progression strategy such as the Paroli or the Fibonacci. Both are good ways to play. But the player has no choice in the numbers when he plays the Line or Come/Don’t Come bets. He is truly at the mercy of the dice.

Next to flat betting, the most conservative wager on the craps layout is the Place bet on the six or eight. The house edge on these wagers is just one tenth of one percent higher than on the flat bet. However, in this case the player has his choice of two very good numbers.

The problem with place betting is that it immediately places money at risk. A quick point-seven can be devastating to the player’s bankroll. Therefore, the player should chart the tables and look for certain indicators before placing money at risk. And once the player decides to place money in action he should follow the old adage, “Don’t test the depth of the water with both feet.”

Advantages of the Heat Seeking Craps Strategy: The Axis Power Heat Seeking Craps Strategy offers many player advantages. First of all, it positions the player to score a substantial win with very little downside risk. When played properly the player will never have more than three “at-risk” betting units per hand. Since there is little money at risk the minimum bankroll required to play is relatively small - as little as $150 in a $5 game. And unlike systems that require you to count the number of tosses before entering the game, you do not have to stand idly by the table. You do not have to write anything down or perform any complex mathematical calculations in your mind. You simply watch for certain entry keys and play by a specific set of simple rules.

Does this mean you will win at every session? No. Again, at best you have less than a 50/50 chance of winning in a random game. Long, hot rolls are few and far between. However, by playing a safe, conservative strategy you can find the hot shooters and profit from them. The strategy has a built-in money management feature that helps position you for unlimited winnings while minimizing losses.

Hot Shooter Indicators: While charting the tables you will be looking for positive signs that indicate the table trend may be heating up. Here are the primary Hot Shooter Indicators you are looking for:

1. Any inside number - the 5, 6, 8, or 9 - repeats during a shooter’s hand.

2. Multiple hardway numbers roll during a shooter’s hand.

3. The shooter makes his first pass and gets beyond roll three of his second hand.

4. The shooter throws consecutive sevens on the come out roll.

5. The shooter throws consecutive elevens on the come out roll.

6. The shooter places and wins any one-roll proposition or hop bet.

7. The shooter takes the time to carefully pre-set the dice and executes a
gentle consistent controlled toss.

Negative Indicators: Just as there are indicators marking the correct time to enter the game, there are indicators that tell you not to enter the game, or if you are already in the game to place no further action until you see another Positive Indicator. Negative Indicators include:

1. The shooter sevens out without making his Pass.

2. The shooter throws a craps number on his come out roll (unless he had
placed prop action on that particular craps number - in which case this is a
Positive Indicator.)

3. You lose a come bet to a 2, 3, or 12 craps.

4. One of your come bets travels to the 4 or 10.

5. A casino employee cautions the shooter for any reason.

The Play: Let’s assume you are at a $5 table and you buy in for $150. Take $30 in chips and place them in your front chip rack. Take the remaining $120 and place it in the back rack. Those six chips you placed in the front of the rack are all you need to get started. And remember, you are going to limit your downside risk to just three units.

Conversely, when you win you will place your winnings in the front rack along side your remaining action chips. When the dollar value of the chips in the front rack exceeds $35 the player may step his play up to the next level.

Let’s say the shooter has the dice and establishes a point of five. He tosses the dice again and throws a six. He continues to toss and throws an eight, a ten, and another six. He has repeated an inside number - a Positive Indicator.

Bet 1: Drop three of your red chips on the table and tell the dealer to place the six and eight for $6 each. You will receive $3 change and he will set up the bets.

Bet 2: Place $5 on the Come.

At this point you have $12 action on the six and eight. This is hedged on the next roll by the $5 Come bet, so you have only $7 at risk to win $7. You have a total of ten ways to win on the six and eight versus six ways to lose on the seven.

The shooter rolls the dice again and one of four things happens. He makes his pass, he throws a box number, he throws a craps or eleven, or he sevens out. If he sevens out, the series ends with a net $7 loss. If he throws a craps number and you lose your Come bet you must stop betting until you note another positive indicator. If he makes his Pass or throws any box number your Come bet will travel to that number.

Let’s assume the next number to roll is the nine and continue with our play. The come bet travels to the nine. You now have three units at risk, one unit place action each on the six and eight plus a one unit flat bet on the nine.

Bet 3: Play $5 on the come.

Once again, the $5 Come bet has a hedge effect against your other wagers. You have three units in action between the previous Place and Come action. However, you only have two units at risk.

Now let’s assume the shooter gets the dice and throws another six. A couple of things happen at this point. First of all, your come bet travels to the six. Next the dealer will pay you $7 for the $6 six place bet. He will also ask if you want odds on your six. At this point you tell him “no” and ask him to bring you down on your place bet on the six. You still have three bets working; a $6 Place bet on the eight and Come bets on the six and nine. More importantly, you have locked up a $7 win. So while you have $16 on the layout, you only have $9 at risk. Let’s continue our play.

Bet 4: Play $5 on the come. This time the shooter rolls a four. You now have $21 on the layout with $14 - three betting units - at risk. At this point you have four numbers covered. You may not place any further action until one of these bets wins. This is the highest risk play of the Axis Power Heat Seeking Craps Strategy - yet there are still less than three betting units at risk.

Let’s assume the eight rolls next. You collect an additional $7 for the place bet, but since the bet does not come down you make no additional wagers. You still have four bets working. Now let’s assume the six repeats on the next roll. Since the six is a Come bet you will be paid a flat $5 and the initial wager returned. At this point you hand the dealer $6 and tell him to “Place the six back for six dollars.” When playing this strategy you will always have the six and eight working for you unless you find yourself with more than four bets working. Then you must come down on either the six or the eight. The best practice is to come down on the number that is farthest away from the shooter’s point.

Let’s say the shooter makes his pass and throws the five on the next toss. You won a total of $19 for the last series. You have two flat bets working - the four and the nine. These are contract bets and are working on the next come out. You also have $6 each place on the six and eight. These are off on the come out roll. You have a total of $22 on the table. Once the point is established you will have only $3 at risk due to the earlier wins. Since the shooter made his last pass you may now place a Pass Line bet.

Bet 5: $5 on the Pass Line.

On the come out roll the shooter throws a 3-craps. This is a Negative Indicator. You do not place another wager until you see a Positive Indicator.

The shooter gets the dice again and establishes a four as the point. Since your flat bet on the four was working the dealer pays you $5 and returns your $5 wager. You now have $6 each on the six and eight plus a $5 flat bet on the nine for a total of $17 action. The $5 loss on the come out roll was offset by the subsequent win on the four. You still have $19 locked up and are guaranteed a $2 profit regardless what happens at this point.

At this point you have options. You could come down on the six and eight and leave only the flat bets working. This would increase your guarantee for this shooter to $14. Or you could continue to play as before, flat betting and seeking out the hot shooter. Let’s assume we do the latter.

Bet 6: $5 on the Come.

At this point the strategy progresses as before, the player never risking more than three units and never having more than four bets working. The player continues to place his winnings in the front rack until he accumulates in excess of $35. This is his key to step up his level of play. Take one chip from the front of the rack and tell the dealer you want single odds on one of your come bets. On each subsequent win repeat the process until you have single odds on all of your come bets. Then, on the next win, if you do not already have it you place the point.

Continue to feed your winnings into the front chip rack until you have accumulated $70. This is your key to progress to double odds on your come bet. Only increase your odds as you collect wins, and increase your odds on only one come bet at a time.

Each time the dollar value of the chips in your front rack double you may increase your odds bet by one unit. Continue this strategy until you reach the maximum odds available in that particular casino. Then increase the size of your flat bets from one unit to two and run the progression again.

This simple place/come betting strategy allows the player to see plenty of action while minimizing risk. It forces the bets to pay for themselves first while taking advantage of the lowest vig bets on the layout. Will it win 100% of the time? No system can promise that. But long, hot hands are what most players are looking for in the game. The Axis Power Heat Seeking Craps Strategy will help you survive until the hot shooter comes along. Then - it’s money in your pocket.

[Mad Professor]

One of the guys over on the DiceInstitute m-board was talking about writing a WinCraps betting-script for H's Heat-Seeker so that we could add it to the ongoing ‘Testing, Testing’ in-casino D-I roll-stats group-shoot war-gaming exercise that Al_Falcons and a few others, including myself, are doing.

There was also some talk about including H's Heat-Seeker in the ‘Random, Random’ bet-testing thread over there as well.

I think the random-vs-skilled-shooter results would be interesting to see. I know that some of the findings in that 'Testing, Testing' thread have been very eye-opening for many.

I haven't seen the finished W/C-script yet, but when it's done; I'd like to see if I could talk that W/C script-writer into sharing that here too if the big guy gives his approval. That way, home-gamers could play around with it too with their own roll-stats if they wish.


MP

[wudged]

That was me who was attempting to write it, but I had to make some minor modifications - some are obvious (can't have a negative trigger when the shooter is warned!) - some aren't (once you get into a really extended length hand, odds calculations become quite tricky, so it will assume 3x odds on all numbers for a 3x4x5 table and increase the flat when needed, instead of doing a minimum flat bet and put-betting more on the flat when necessary to bring the flat + odds to the current betting level.)

I sent it to Al_Falcons and he has been reviewing it. At 400+ lines, and with a relatively complex system (as opposed to say 'place 6/8 and press every other hit,) it's quite a bit complicated to sift through and determine if everything is programmed correctly.

I'd be more than happy to share it with anybody who wants it, once its complete.

Heavy did a good job explaining the method, and even included a sample scenario to further explain what actions to take. Anybody who wants to introduce a new betting strategy should take note that it's helpful to have a "hands on" explanation (for easier understanding as well as the ability to test that it's being followed correctly) in addition to the rules just laid out.

[bobthetree]

Been looking this up recently, wargaming a little in my "craps pit". Wudged, do you still have that wincraps script around?

[House of Orange]

We are awaiting the final version of Win Craps Pro. Evidently the script, language is going to change. So until the final product, including help files, is out, I'm not gonna do anything.

[wudged]

I don't think I ever completed it, but I can send you what I have (if I still have it.) I'll have to check for it when I get home tonight.

[bobthetree]

Alrighty, thanks wudged.

[wudged]

heavy heat seeking-wudged.bet

it's somewhat commented but i haven't touched it in a year so i don't know much about it at this point

[bobthetree]

Thanks wudged. I have been at home casino war gaming this strategy with a few modifications here and there. Hope to be able to use this too.

-Ross

[Craps75]

I just found this strategy and I really like it. Heavy, would you reccomend a newbie to use this to bet on there own rolls? If so should I qualify myself before betting? I've been spanked so bad at the tables I'm even shy about betting on myself!! Lol

[heavy]

Yeah, it's not a bad way to play. Once you establish a point, wait one roll before placing any other action - eliminating any point-seven-out issues. Then just tiptoe in and see where it leads you.

Another way to tiptoe in - shoot from the Don'ts - then place the point. Example, bet $11 on the Don't Pass. Let's say the five is established as the point. Now place the five for $10. You're now guaranteed a $1 win if you seven out - and a $3 win if you make your point. All you have to do is get past that come-out seven or eleven to get your don't bet established.

Also consider SIA's one-hit - can't miss play. $12 on the Don't Pass - then place bet the six and eight for $12 each. After one hit on either the six or eight you are guaranteed a win for the series - and you could win a lot more if you keep tossing sixes and eights.

[Craps75]

I tried your Heat Seeker method on the last throws that I logged. I ended up doubling my $150 buy in!! I'm still using the cross 6 set and that does bring more twos and threes so I got hit a few times on the come out by a two or three. I also tend to throw elevens with this set so the win on the eleven made up for some of the losses. Playing the pass line, like you would have to do if shooting, gets your three units up a step quicker than if you played the method exactly like Heavy posted. I played this like I didn't have a pass line bet out, so occasionally I would have four units at risk. That was very seldom. I'm going to continue to play this method while I'm logging rolls and see what I can getting "virtual" bankroll up to.

[heavy]

I love it when a plan comes together.

[Craps75]

If it works as well in live play I'll be one happy camper!!

[freak]

Heavy - I agree that riding the occasional trend is the way to win this game. L and I tried the Heat Seeker last night before dinner with great results. We started playing it very strict and we both gradually grew. Then after about 45 minutes I loosened up and made a few extra place bets and extra odds. We each started with $300 but played for over an hour and a half with only the first $60 (6 units on a $10 table) we'd put in the front of the rack. I turned my $60 into about $250 at the highest point and L had about $175. Then we took a break for dinner and and after eating decided to play a $15 table with the same session + winnings bank rolls (me $550 and L $475). Within 45 minutes we were both broke. We did everything the same as before dinner, but the dice were just different. We kept getting two come bets to travel and then 7-out with no wins. Or one come bet to travel and the second come knocked off by craps then 7- out before any numbers hit. Or two come bets to travel and one win each on the 6 & 8 converting them to come, then make the point and hit a 7 on the come out losing 4 come bets. Ouch. Never has a come out 7 hurt so much! Since we were at home we didn't stop after three losses but just kept trying. We do think it's a good strategy and we'll use it some tomorrow when we go back to Cherokee. But I'll be wary of too many come bets and maybe keep it to 3 numbers max if they become come bets. And after 3 losses I'll go don't until we see the next positive trend.

[TwinStix]

Do you not employ a stop-loss, freak?

Just curious.

[freak]

Do you not employ a stop-loss, freak?

Just curious.

Yes and no. I always have one in mind walking in. I struggle with the emotions of a loss though and sometimes use the next session's money too quickly. I need more discipline. L is good at that part. Both knowing when to quit when we're up and when we're down. I need to try harder.

[heavy]

Never has a come out 7 hurt so much!

Yeah, you've just learned the fatal flaw (IMHO) with come betting. And in a $15 game - even if you only have three units at risk at any time - that's still a $45 loss when the ugly number comes. Doesn't take too many of those to put you in a hole.

I might suggest you and your lady consider either a shared bankroll two person team approach, which I think we've talked about before, of simply adopt slightly different betting strategies - perhaps one of you betting the Pass Line with odds and the sister of the point number while the other runs a six and eight progression or something like that. And remember, when the table gives you sevens - lay a number and bet the don'ts.

[London Shooter]

Heavy - one question on this. If you start off the play on a new shooter and have 6&8 placed, then a come bet that say travels to the 5 and then another come bet and that ends up on the 9 - you now have 4 betting units at risk. Do you then take down one of the 6&8 placed bets so you are only ever risking the max of 3 units as this system defines?

[heavy]

You can place one more come bet. Because of the hedge effect of the come bet you'll still only have 3 units at risk to the seven. However, if the come bet were to travel to the four or ten in your example - then you'd have to take down the six and eight and stop come betting until one of the established bets won.