a 3 book experiment

[Americraps]

I'm doing a little experimenting on my next 3 books of rolls. This current book, I'm wearing comfortable athletic shoes and shooting from 9 1/2 feet, OH reaching out to the PL on my table. At 11 1/2 inches from the side wall on my table, it's a little uncomfortable, and I cannot get my shoulder cap that far out so there is a slight angle between my shoulder cap and my dice. My table doesn't get straight at the back wall til 13", so I am throwing at a slight angle. I am using the straight sixes with 66 on top and 22 facing me and betting a $5 naked PL and $25 field. After 161 tosses my srr is 5.37, but I'm up over $500. How can this be? I have both dice on axis at 47.2% and I am hitting a lot of field numbers. PFH 12.42, Single Pitch 19.88, DP 14.91, Both off 10.56. Wow, shitty numbers indeed, but the both dice on axis number is generating profit with the right set. This is my point about why on axis percentage is valuable on another thread. I'd be up another $644 if I was betting a $25 horn as well, not that I'd be very likely to do that, at least normally. I like this way of betting as the seven isn't so devistating as when you have the board covered. If the DPs continue and the srr stays below the Mendosa line, I would bet the don't pass instead of pass.
Anyway, here's the experiment part. On my next book of rolls, I will wear my uncomfortable elevator shoes (giving me an extra 2 1/4 inches) and see if I can get my shoulder cap directly above my hand. On the following book, I will wear the comfortable shoes and go as far as I can towards the middle of the table while still keeping my hand under my shoulder cap. This will force me to shoot at a greater angle to the BW, as I'm guessing that I can only get my shoulder cap out to about 8 inches or so. I will report the numbers from time to time. Any predictions as to how the book numbers will compare?

[Americraps]

Part one of the 3 book experiment is done- I wore comfortable gym shoes and got my throwing arm out 11 1/2 inches to the PL (not under my shoulder cap) and aimed for a LS that was 1 1/2 inches further toward the middle of the table and 1 foot from the BW. I started out betting a naked PL and $25 field, but after a while, my neighbors called and said they couldn't stand the naked PL bet any more, and would I either pull the shades or put some clothes on? Starting with new dice, my numbers were thus-

Set 66 on top 22 facing me, 9 1/2 feet from BW, 2 finger and thumb , OH, diagonal grip. Srr 5.71 BSR 3.73 Both Die on Axis 44.03

PFH 11.81, Single Pitch 20.69, DP 11.53, Left off 157, Right Off 164, Both off 11.39. Kinda Randy. However, I had 4.31% more field hits (4.72% advantage) than random, winning 34 units on the field (12 pays triple in Casino Americraps), my nickel PL lost $65 and a nickel DP would have won $45. My $25 horn which started out so profitable would have lost $88. I would be very happy to duplicate these numbers in a casino. Betting this way is like playing blackjack with the count always positive. I especially like (and find a large measure of comfort in) the fact that I can win more on one roll than I can lose. 34 units is not too shabby if those units are $100, or more. I'm not sure how I would bet in the casino to disguise this a little, maybe some kind of progression IDK. I would think the pit critters would catch on pretty quick to a guy with a very measured throw, grip, delivery, with a classic GT toss setting 66 on top and betting big deniminations only on the field, especially if he's white, lol.


My next book of rolls will test out the effect of my tall man shoes and will get my shoulder over my hand, everything else the same, including new dice, and this time the shades and curtains will be drawn.

[heavy]

Okay, forgive an old man still recovering from all of that stuff we did in the sixties. Have you ever done a 3 on 1 session with me, Irish, and Maddog? You're hitting on a lot of things we talk about in those sessions. Just curious.

[Americraps]

Hey Heavy, I'd love to do one of those, but I work weekends and I haven't been able to get out in time.

[heavy]

Well, I don't mean to brag but I have to say I am of the opinion that one of those sessions can be the most valuable and productive 60 - 90 minutes you can invest in DI training. Just saying.

[Americraps]

I've learned a lot from your website and MPs too and all the other posters contributions as well. I have no doubt at all that a 90 minute session with the 3 diceskateers (and I mean that in a nice way) would be invaluable. I am a wedding DJ and am contracted to play for specific events that are always on Fridays, Sat, and sometimes Sundays. THat's why I have missed your last 3 seminars.

[Americraps]

Part 2 of the 3 part experiment is done. On this book, I started wearing my uncomfortable tall man shoes that raise my height about 2 1/4 inches and found them to be too short to do the job, so I got out my Frankenstein 4inch platforms. Man these things are butt ugly, but they are very comfortable and I found that I could get about 9 inches from the side wall and still be under my shoulder. MP- you mentioned trying out different Landing spots and I did, but for most of the book, I used the same LS as before- 1 foot from BW. Towards the end of the book, I really messed around with different trajectories and moved the LS from 2" from the BW to 2' from the BW, both with success. In short, it seems like if you keep the dice together spinning vertically 100% pure, there are a lot of different landing spots and trajectories that work. Anyway one other thing I did which probably influenced the outcomes enough to nullify this entire experiment was I reglued the BW at around roll 350. I was aware that it was loose and bubbling out a little, but I had been procrastinating fixing it mostly because I was shooting at the other BW with my UH, so it wasn't a priority. After seeing way too many dice run right after hitting the BW, I decided to get off my lazy arse and fix it. This really didn't affect the running problem, but it did help in deadening the rollback a little. I think my dice were running right because they weren't hitting the wall square. If they run right after they inpact the BW, is that because they are hitting the wall with the left edge first?
The numbers are better than the last book
set- 66 on top 22 facing me, srr 6.26, BSR 4.16, Both Dice on Axis 45%, PFH 13.89, SIngle Pitch 20.28, DP 10.83, Left off 160, Right off 155, Both off 11.25. Interestingly I had the right/ right combo (hard 8) happen a lot (25 compared to the expected 20) but the left/left combo (hard 6) only 19 times. I threw 2.64% more field #s than random, but won 40 field units because top/top (boxcars) was my most frequent combo. I threw 29 boxcars instead of the expected 20. That was handy! My field bet was a 5.55% advantage. I had a 9.1% advantage on the buy 10, as well as a 21% advantage on the buy 12 (crapless here I come).
I used my practice time with $5Bill last night to further these numbers and he thought that this would be a comfortable way for him to play too. I agree, especially with a limited BR, and his ability to keep the dice on axis, the field only bet should be a relatively non volatile way to make some money. Yes, sure it's very possible to lose 15 or more field bets in a row, but (assuming you have a proven advantage on the field) if you have a BR of about 50 units, I think that would offer a reasonable risk of ruin scenario. OK enough of my blather.

[Americraps]

OK book OH3 is done and in the books. I couldn't keep the 50% on axis all the way to the end although I was above 50% in the roll 500s. Ended up thus-
Set 66 on top 22 facing srr 6.67 Box to 7 4.27, Both die on Axis 48.47, PFH 12.64,
Single Pitch, 25.28,
DP 10.56
Left Off 127, Right off 170, both off 8.89%.
I would have won 38 units on the field with trip on the twelve=5.3% advantage or 1.8% if double on the twelve. I had a lot of sixes that were on axis 1-5 or 5-1 which kind of rained on my on axis field parade, but still 38 units is profitable. A $25 horn bet would have won $4713 and a $100 field would have won $1300 on a double pay twelve layout.. What did I learn from this 3 book experiment? Well, I sure didn't expect to have my best on axis numbers with my comfy gym shoes and my hand so close to the sidewall. I think my oH throw is improving with all this practice. I'm ready for incasino testing

[heavy]

Let's do it !

[Americraps]

OK, I did it. Unfortunately, when I got to my local place, there were only 2 tables open and they were packed, so I used a coupon that I had for matchplay blackjack, and lost $4 in about 1/2 hour. By then the tables had thinned but not really enough for it to be good. I stepped up to sr1 anyway. My plan was to play $10 field units at this $5 table with a $5 PL and no odds. Over the course of 1 1/2 hours , I got the dice 6 times and basically sucked until my last hand. Hand lengths were 4,2,2,3,6,15. I lost 10 field units. This is not unexpected, as in practice I quite frequently went up and down 20 field bets. Both dice on axis 43.75, PFH12.5, Single pitch 15.63, DP 15.63, Left off 1, right off 12?!!!! Wow, something was dreadfull wrong here. Probably my thumb, but I will investigate this thoroughly in practice today. Both off 15.63%.

[Lkwd]

Americraps

How do you track your tosses during live play?


Lkwd

[Americraps]

I have a small digital recorder that I keep in my shirt pocket. I talk to myself a lot.

[isgood]

Your weight was redistributed because you had something in your shirt pocket. This makes you move your shoulders differently affecting your toss arm then your angle of delivery. That could be part of the reason you did not do so well. Just MHO.
Remember there should be no shoulder or head movement just your arm moving during the toss.

isgood

[Americraps]

Hi Isgood- I don't know about a 2 ounce thing shifting my toss out of wack, but I do wear different clothes when I shoot. A pocketed buttondown shirt with a tee shirt under, and when I practice I only wear the tee shirt, so that might make a difference, with my arms being a little more constricted. Anyway I went back there tonight and only had 1 hand, with some good news and bad news. The bad news was that I was only up 2 field bets. The good news was that I made 8 PL points and the free fire bet that pays $4K if you make all 6 numbers. I kept my same straight sixes till I got to the last point I needed to make which was the nine. I switched to the 3v on the CO and threw a 7, then yo, then I came out on the 9, laid against it for everything I had ($690) , then made it 6 throws later. So I made $20 on my field bet and $3k after tips and lay on the free fire bet. I've been playing at this house for 2 years and I got close once before, and got paid on my lay bet that time, also the nine. When I made it this time, I jumped and yelled and threw my arms up in the air and launched my recorder like a dork. I went running around whooping it up and when I came back to the table, a guy handed it to me and said "Hey I think you dropped your phone here". Uh oh, that's on tape I told myself, but nobody said anything and it kind of looks like a phone anyway. I suppose I shoulda acted a little more mature, but the adrenaline took over, lol. I'm sure the eye in the sky had a good laugh at me, as well as the other patrons in the casino.

[$5Bill]

CONGRATULATIONS Americraps!!!!

You practiced long and hard for that BIG WIN. You deserve every bit of that money. Now it’s my turn to win that “Craps for Cash” thingy.
I'll see you tomorrow.

$5Bill

[Americraps]

Vanilla- The free fire bet is called "cash for craps" or maybe its "Craps for Cash" I always get that transposed. It is offered by the Grand Victoria in Elgin, IL. You get nothing for making 5 points or less. You get $4K for making 6 points. It is not a bet. This is a free promotion offered by the casino, for the shooter only. Obviously you want to lay against the last point as a hedge when you come out on it to ensure a payout.

[Americraps]

Thanks Bill

[acpa]

Gold Strike in Tunica had the same deal way back when.

I got 5 of them and came out on the 8 that I needed, but couldn't convert it. Still had a good results because I laid all that I had against the 8. If I remember correctly, it was about $480 so I won the $400 minus my required $5 pass line bet.

Noah

[heavy]

I'm looking forward to the day I go six for six on one of these games - or on the Fire Bet layout. I've hit five of six many times but have never been able to establish the sixth point - I always end up on a repeater, regardless of how I set the dice. Would love to have the opportunity to run that "lay" strategy and guarantee myself a decent win.

[Americraps]

After looking at my BT results of that hand, I'll just say I'd rather be lucky than good!

Set started with 66 on top 22 facing me, for the last CO and point cycle roll switched to 33 on top 15 facing me. I did not record my last 2 rolls which were 5,and 7 because I couldn't remember what set I was using, because I was freaked out about my recorder flying out of my pocket, lol.

Rolls 36 +2

Both dice on axis 36.11%

Srr 12

BSR 9.33

PFH 11.11

Single Pitch 16.67

DP 8.33

Left off 14

Right off 7 This is laughable

Both off 5.56

I suppose there is some evidence of influence here, but really 36.11 % on axis isn't what I'm looking for. Still I had 4 pfh in that hand and two of them were twelves.

My going to the casino is an extension of my recent field bet experiment books. I am now betting a naked $5 PL and a $10 field bet while setting the straight sixes. My goal is to do another book incasino and see if I still have a field advantage. So far, I don't but its still very early. It hurt a little bit having 8 PL winners with no odds, (I cheated and put $5 odds on the four one time, and I had $2 on the odds for my last point,lol)