A " Unique / Practical " approach to this " Game " -

[acpa]

I have played something like that in the past, I didn't lay all the numbers, but only 4 that bone tracker showed I was most unlikely to roll with the seven set. If I didn't roll a seven on the come out, I then moved to try to make the number until the next come out. I was able to lay the numbers to win 10/12 if the seven was rolled with vig paid only on wins.

They changed the rules where I had to double by bet and I stopped playing it.

I was up overall on that approach.

Noah

[bobthetree]

This is certainly interesting. That set you are talking about does not appear to be a good set for this action. You are shooting for a primary face ONLY! Any other on-axis combination leads to a box number! I think if you want to do something like that, after the comeout, you would want to use the straight 6's set. 6|1 - 5|2 Top - Facing. It still has the 4 sevens on the primary faces, but more junk numbers on axis; thus, less chance of knocking yourself off on on-axis tosses. A cool think I recently learned about this set... No 5s or 9s... I started to do the math on it. If you assume an influenced toss that produces more on-axis outcomes, but random distribution of primary, secondary, and double pitch outcomes... You only need to toss 1% better than random amounts of on-axis results! How incredible is that! I need to do a write up on it, but I find this VERY intriguing.

[Americraps]

Good Work, BTT, I am interested in your findings here.

[heavy]

This strategy has been around for a long time. I can recall us talking about it back ten or more years ago on the old Dicesetter.com website when Irishsetter was still running things there. Scribe uses the play from time to time - as does Maddog. I've never tried it myself. While I teach players that the smart come-out move is to set for and attempt to toss a seven, on those occasions when I actually DO set the All Sevens set I am usually trying to double pitch into a two or twelve.

ACPA, it sounds like you gave up a successful play when the casino tried to force you to win more money by betting more.

Then again, I still kind of like a $5 game when I can find one.

[mycoalsmith]

It sounds good . . . . . in theory.

I had tried it up in Presque Isle, Erie, PA when I was up there and had a $10.00 Match Play coupon. When I got there in the morning, I stopped at the Craps table and no one was there - other than the dealers - waiting for a customer/victim.
I moved on and a little later came back and the table was stil empty. So I thought, "Well, I'll just put my $10.00 Match Play on the Don't Pass, throw the dice with my "double set" and then set the dice for the "7 set", and win my money. So, I put down my $10.00 Match Play, with $10.00 in chips on the DP. Set my "double set" and rolled a 6. Set my "7 set" and rolled all over the board. After about 7 or 8 throws, a 6 pops up. Well, there goes my Match Play.

Put $5.00 on DP and set my "double set". Rolled another 6. Same thing again - set my "7 set" and threw all kind of numbers and then hit the 6.

How many people do you see start throwing and seven out within the first 2 - 6 throws? Again, and again and again. About the time you try your method, will be the time they get on a hot roll and hit every single number, get their point, and might even roll to win a Firebet!

But perhaps I'm just not a good dice setter.

[heavy]

Some of the best hands I've ever had came when I was shooting from the Don'ts. It's gonna happen eventually if you play that way. But I HAVE seen this strategy work VERY well for Scribe in the past. It's a good way to recharge your bankroll if you've been getting spanked.

[acpa]

Heavy,

What Irish said about the dealers, is one of the reasons I didn't push it.

That and the fact that I'm a red chip player ans/or I thought that betting brought more attention to me than I wanted.

Noah

[heavy]

Sounds like a good enough reason to me. Like I said, I like a $5 game as much as the next guy when I can find one on a decent table with shooting opportunities. Otherwise - I'll just move on to the $10 - $15 game.

It's kind of funny watching someone making this wager on a table where the dealers have never seen it. Once they figure it out and the lights go on they tend to get very excited about it and often route for the shooter. Like Irish, my preference would be to see this play used on the Come out only. I'd proably go with the lay action across combined with a $20 - $25 PL bet. If you toss the seven on the come out you get the PL bonus on top of the lay payoffs. If you toss a box number and lose that one bet, you're already set up to win that $ back. Take down the lay action and you become a point shooter.

[spiker]

This sounds like a fun way to play if it's working out your way most of the time. Could get frusterating if you just take a bite out of yourself slowly before you at least hit it once. I like heavy's addition to a 20-25$ pl for a way to get your $ back, as long as you get past that crap on the CO sounds like a decent way to get it back and try again on your next CO. I agree with "mycoalsmith" how sometimes you can't hit a seven for the life of you,even though you are setting for it and trying to throw it. I Have done that many times just playing a min dp on an empty table killin time and groovin my toss. I don't have stats or practice enough to consider myself a proven DI but sometimes when i set the sevens, they come up like i know what i'm doing. haha I know a lot of you won't bet on randies, but i've seen a lot of randies throw lots of sevens, and repeating in many cases,on the CO. Might not be too bad to try this on their CO either. Just a thought, use the one loss per shooter theory as you wait for them? you never know. haha

thanks for the forum and everyone's input. This is only my 2nd post. i enjoy reading it all! good luck everyone!

spiker

[Maddog]

Yes, I play this strategy on occasion, though not very often, mostly as something "different" to keep things interesting. At one time I mocked it up on a spreadsheet and on wincraps to figure out what it would take to make it work. I forget the details of it, but basically you can lose up to 3 bets and still make a profit, depending on which numbers hit. Or you can lose any 2 numbers as long as you did not lose BOTH the 4 and 10.

As a rule, I only play this way if I'm the only one at the table (or maybe with a friend who knows what I have planned). As has been mentioned it is somewhat unusual bet and you often need to walk the dealers through setting up the lay bets. I just don't like going through that when there are other players waiting for the game to go. When I play it, I don't replace any laybets that fall. I've had a few times were I go something like 9, 9, 7.. or 8, 8, 7.. or even 8,6,8,7. Heavy mentioned using it with the come-out roll only, then switching to right side. That would be interesting, especially if you are alone and can get the dealers to leave your lay-bets up, but put an "Off" lamer on the Lays once the point is set. Would save the hassle of resetting the bets up all the time. Also, I only play this strategy on my own shooting, though it is not that risky a play with other shooters, so long as you stick with the rules and allow only two bets to fall by a single shooter.

It was fun watching Scribe pull this play at the M one time awhile back. I think Heavy and I and I think PappyVanWinkle, maybe Irish was there also, were at the table and had not had much going. Scribe decided to get into this play. Memory is a little old on this one, but I think the rest of us quit betting to just watch and Scribe completed like 3 or 4 of these. I don't think any of them were in a row, but all withing a few rolls. I think Scribe replaced lay-bets that fell, but cant remember for sure.

P.S.

Wanted to make a comment regarding this statement by spiker:

...I know a lot of you won't bet on randies...

spiker, sounds like maybe you are reading the ranting of some posters on other forums. I personally don't know anyone on this board that "WON'T BET ON RANDIES". I bet on randies, Heavy bets on randies, Irish bets on randies, Roadrunner, SSS, PVW, SIA, Greenchip, Golfer, etc. etc. all bet on randies. I've posted many a trip report where a randy caught a hand and by jumping on it, I turned a losing session from my own shooting, into a winning session.

As long as one understands that the Random game is a Negative expectation game, and that if you are going to bet on the Randy, do it knowing you are hoping to catch a happy Variance Wave (luck). Do it KNOWING you are feeding the action junkie in your heart, and don't fool yourself that you have the magic intuition or the "coveted-cant-lose-system". You are doing it because you love the action, pure and simple. And knowing this, use intelligent money management and limit the amount of your betting on the randy, in favor of increasing your betting amounts on your own validated skills.

[spiker]

maddog

let me re-phrase, yes i know people bet on randies, but i know a lot bet min line or other low HE best on randies rather than the way they would play their own roll. So I guess I was implying that this would be interesting to play on every shooter. make sense?

[House of Orange]

I saw some Jeff Foxworthy, "Here's your sign!", individual try to pull this stunt last week at the Palace. $3 game. His turn, put up $3 passline bet. Lay the 4 & 10 for $10. Lay the 5 & 9 for $15. Pay $4 vig up front. Roll a 5. Take down the remaining lays. Put $10 behind his pass line. Make the point. $2 profit (check my math) Rinse and repeat, set a point of 9. Make the point. $2 profit. Next series 7 out. As Jerry Glannville would note, NFL stood for "Not For Long" and indeed this was the case.

[Roller123]

MP has a written series where he is shooting from the Don't. If he chimes in he can direct you to it. It would probably give you some good insight.

Roller

[pradice]

Yeah a boxman turned me on to this play last year. I love using it occasionally on a sparsely populated table and with a dealer I know. My play has been $270 across the back on the come out. A 7 shows I'm paid $160 ish after the juice. Then leave it up again. That's the plan anyway.

I love this play especially when I want to darkside the shooter anyway. I can take down a few lays and try to replace with a DC or two after a point is established. And I have never seen a table allowing the turning off of a lay bet, and obviously this play is extra work for the dealer if you are only using it on the come out rolls. But what fun a $160 seven is on a come out with only a partial risk. Sure you can hop the red, but you are on a higher house advantage one roll bet.

[amish dude]

Maddog -

Very interesting responses -

Both to the ' lay bet scenario ' and the ' betting on randies ' concept -

I doubt if the casinos would allow the ' off ' lamer to be placed on the lay bets -
I tried that quite some time ago in AC -
And was told by the box -
" They are either ' ON ' or ' DOWN ' - No ' OFF ' action on lay bets ! "
$...eE..$

$naked$ is correct on that statement and I learned the hard way a $105 hard way off is not an option on down as I had placed the 8 for $96 and lay-ed it also ether way i would have won next toss was an eight then next toss was a 7