Don't pass. Trip report and question

[mogul397]

Hi,

I'm new to the group. A main reason that I stated for coming here was the
fact that I keep seeing ads for super craps, and other big name systems that you'd
think would be vocabulary words on discussion forums, but not only do I see no
discussion about them, but people actually say they've never heard of them.

So I'd like to see or hear some information. You have "knockout craps, etc.

But to give a brief introduction to my decades of gambling study, mostly roulette,
then craps came in, and a little baccarat, it seems like every so often something happens
to reignite the bug in my head, and I am off again. Mostly casino trips to study what
I think should happen. Not too much actual bets.

Lately twin rivers opened live tables. First time I had real tables within arms reach,
and I went down to see one for real. I really do enjoy watching the game, weather
or not I actually have a bet.

Here are my betting inclinations.

1) Don't

2) "Mr C craps system". By Al Coggins. Never met him, but a friend of mind did.
Claims to have mad his living for years. Simple method. Track the table. After
2-3 don't passes you are playing 1-2 pass line, no odds. 1 unit and then 2 units.

3) like place bets. Maybe $44 or $54 across for 1-2 rolls type of thing.

4) Biggest one is I love to parlay.

So now to my story.. I played my few bets and won $30 which was locked in my
pocked and was next to this guy who seems like he practically lives at the casino.

He had a stack of $100 of $5 chips that he bet selective $10 ($10 min) don't pass
bets and a few other odd bets. He ended up $160 maybe by the time I left.
He waited till there was a 7 out and that was his signal.

He bet $10 don't pass. If he won, he bet $15 don't pass and (I forget the bet name)
but it is all the 7's and yo's. So he hedged with PROFITS. Cost $5.

If a 7 or yo hit, he lost his $15, and won like $15, (minus the other $4).

Obviously he won on craps, and if a point was established he was in a favorable
odds position with his don't pass bet (lost the $5 and had $15 don't pass)

This method of hedging seemed intriguing to me and is stuck in my head.

But he seems to be claiming to keep the statistical edge on his don'ts with
money management.

Any thoughts?

[heavy]

I'm new to the group. A main reason that I stated for coming here was the
fact that I keep seeing ads for super craps, and other big name systems that you'd
think would be vocabulary words on discussion forums, but not only do I see no
discussion about them, but people actually say they've never heard of them.
So I'd like to see or hear some information. You have "knockout craps, etc.

Knockout Craps is one of Silverthorne's many systems. Like most of his systems, it relies on a negative progression. That progression is loosely based on the Fibonacci progression. The play starts, as I recall, with the player laying against the point. You can do this by playing a DP, then laying odds, or simply waiting until the point is established and laying against it (that's my take on it, anyway)). That move is followed by a series of Come bets, designed to follow the table trend and capitalize on any streaks, while being more or less hedged by the Lay bet. Level one of the progression is a seven step Fibo starting with $16 - 26 - and going from there. There are subsequent levels you progress to if you lose more than seven wagers, but that's a whole 'nuther animal. There is a free e-book site where you can look at this and many more systems. I do not recommend downloading from the site as I am paranoid about viruses in such downloads. However, you can browse the pdf through the download site. A little judicious use of Google will take you to a site where you can view the strategy.

You might browse the site for posts by the author wwwww - who also posted as wolfbyte at one time. He is a died in the wool Silverthorne fan and has adapted many of Silverthorne's systems to his own style of play. Search for the Neural system and the 3-Capping strategy and you should find some interesting reading.

"Mr C craps system". By Al Coggins. Never met him, but a friend of mind did.
Claims to have mad his living for years. Simple method. Track the table. After
2-3 don't passes you are playing 1-2 pass line, no odds. 1 unit and then 2 units.

Haven't heard Al Coggins mentioned in years. Wonder if he's still alive? As I recall, he was living and playing down in the Biloxi market at one time. His "Hot Roll Finder" is somewhat similar to my "Heat Seeking Craps System." Difference - I don't sell mine. It's somewhere here on the site for free.

So now to my story.. I played my few bets and won $30 which was locked in my
pocked and was next to this guy who seems like he practically lives at the casino.
He had a stack of $100 of $5 chips that he bet selective $10 ($10 min) don't pass
bets and a few other odd bets. He ended up $160 maybe by the time I left.
He waited till there was a 7 out and that was his signal. He bet $10 don't pass.
If he won, he bet $15 don't pass and (I forget the bet name)
but it is all the 7's and yo's. So he hedged with PROFITS. Cost $5.
If a 7 or yo hit, he lost his $15, and won like $15, (minus the other $4).
Obviously he won on craps, and if a point was established he was in a favorable
odds position with his don't pass bet (lost the $5 and had $15 don't pass)
This method of hedging seemed intriguing to me and is stuck in my head.
But he seems to be claiming to keep the statistical edge on his don'ts with
money management.

What he is running is a simple "Paroli" strategy on the DP. Up one unit on a win. If he continued to play it properly he would increase his wager one unit on every win - but regress to a single unit on a loss and only bet single units until he had another win. As for the hedge bet - A $3 sevens hop plus a $1 yo would work, but he's probably playing a $4 Big Red plus $1 Yo. An awful bet combined with a bad bet. But there is the problem with hedging. I frequently play a World bet, which is arguably the worst bet on the table - a $4 horn combined with a $1 Big Red. The thing is - I've won so much money off that bad bet through the years that it's hard to convince me not to play it.

Welcome to the forum.

[chumlee]

Knockout craps works with either a hot or a cold table , but loses on a choppy table. I know from experience. Plus , if you are in a full game it can be hard to keep track of .