Vig on Crapsless Extreme Outside buy

[Dave73]

I was watching some of the Crapsless action at Margaritaville In BC yesterday, but I couldn't quite understand how the vig worked on the Extreme Outside. A few of the dealers were struggling as well constantly needing help from the box, and the one who understood it couldnt even explain it.

It seemed they would take a vig not only when placing the wager, but also take another dollar on payout. I also couldnt figure out how much the vig was supposed to be as sometimes when the player would press they would take more, sometimes they wouldnt. Sometimes it was a buck, sometimes it was $3. They player was clueless and just kept paying what they said and pulling $100 bills out of his wallet after a 7out.

I know its a narrow target but has anyone tried to hit those numbers? at 3x or 6x payout it wouldnt take but a couple hits to come out ahead.

[heavy]

It seemed they would take a vig not only when placing the wager, but also take another dollar on payout.

In S/B they always collect the vig up front. Let's say you paid $1 Vig up front on a $20 buy bet on the eleven. The eleven rolls. They ask you to drop a dollar and pay you $60. The dollar you just dropped is the advance vig on the eleven, which stayed up to win again - maybe. A common play is to collect $20 off the win and press the remaining $40, making it a $60 buy bet - which required $3 juice up front. If the eleven rolls again after that press move it pays $180 - minus the $3 vig to stay up. Or lock up $20, press to $200, and drop $10 for the vig. Yeah, that's a brilliant play.

By the way, if you're going to play Crapless the only time you should play the Pass line is when you're the shooter - and you should always take at least 5X odds if it's offered.

[Dave73]

That make sense. Thinking back I think part of the confusion came from the guy screwing himself by paying an additional $1 vig on a $10 press. I was trying to pick it up without asking questions holding up the game.

I saw A LOT of money going down on those outsides but very little coming in... I have never actually played on a crapsless table. The Plaza had one when I was there earlier this year but no one was on it. The ones at Eldo and Mville were both quite busy, but the seemed to attract the dumbest of the dumb as far as bad bettors goes. People who just kept handing over cash from their wallets for it to be gone in a couple rolls.


The crapsless table at Mville was a $10 table with 20x odds. I think the Eldo table was $5 but I dont recall what odds they allow. Most of the S/B houses allow pretty good odds, some up to 100x/ $5k, and I dont think I saw one less than 20x.

[shunkaha]

I was watching some of the Crapsless action at Margaritaville In BC yesterday, but I couldn't quite understand how the vig worked on the Extreme Outside. A few of the dealers were struggling as well constantly needing help from the box, and the one who understood it couldnt even explain it.

It seemed they would take a vig not only when placing the wager, but also take another dollar on payout. I also couldnt figure out how much the vig was supposed to be as sometimes when the player would press they would take more, sometimes they wouldnt. Sometimes it was a buck, sometimes it was $3. They player was clueless and just kept paying what they said and pulling $100 bills out of his wallet after a 7out.

I know its a narrow target but has anyone tried to hit those numbers? at 3x or 6x payout it wouldnt take but a couple hits to come out ahead.

My guess, the reason it seemed to work without rhyme or reason is that dealers try to make the easiest payout they can. Let me to illustrate, you have a $20 12, when you placed it they had you drop the $1 vig, it hits for $120 and you press it to $100 odds are here's what happens, $20 + 120 = 140, 140 - 100 - 5 [vig] = 35 so they pay you $35 and you drop nothing, next hit pays $600 and they have you drop $5 instead of paying out $595 [1 purple chip + 1 black for $600 vs 1 purple + 3 green + 4 red]. Now, one slightly more confusing, you press your $20 place 12 to $101 they pay you $35 ask you to drop $1 [easier to pay you 3 chips [2 denominations] and have you hand in 1 chip than to pay 6 chips [3 denominations], when the 12 hits it pays $606 they pay you $601 taking the vig out of the payout because it is easier.

I could be wrong but what I've usually seen is the dealers make every effort to make the payout/vig/bet the easiest possible because 1] its less confusing , 2] faster, 3] requires fewer chips and/or fewer denominations etc... much like if you had a $426 6 or 8 when it hit it would pay $497 so the dealer would tell you to drop $3 for $500 [purple chip] because its easier to hand you 1 chip in exchange for 3 chips than it would be to hand you 4 black+3 green +4 red +2 white. Just trust that the payouts will sometimes look really strange if there is a way a dealer can do it easier.

[Mad Professor]

Hi Dave,

I've got a four-page mini-mega thread called Crapless Craps……MP-style; which explores both the struggles and the successes of trying to turn the Crapless game into sustainably net-profitable pursuit. It chronicles the experiments that worked...as well as the ones that didn't...and specifically addresses the targetting of the "Extreme Outside" (2, 3, 11, and 12) box-numbers.

MP

[heavy]

I might also direct you to an article I did on crapless craps a few years back at this link:

http://www.crapsfest.com/modules.php?na ... age&pid=12