Accept the small profit & run?

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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rhythm roller
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by rhythm roller » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:27 am

Always a tough decision for me as well! We all love to PLAY!!

Rules for myself are

(1). How did my dice look?

(2) Am I tired physically or mentally after my last hand? For me take stock and then increase it by half as I am usually more tired than I think.

(3) Has the table filled up? How long till I can get the dice again? How many random rollers will I need to bet on, etc? Some would say none and that is the best answer but will I stick with that decision or be coaxed in?

These rules don't mean I never get bitten if I decide to stay and play but at least they make me think about what I am doing after every hand and that has saved me a lot of money. Mind over emotions I hope! :)
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."

KCLady
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by KCLady » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Last night I went to practice on my friend's table (simulated play :D ). I was up +$273.00 and thought to myself had I been in-casino with real money I would have walked, but opted to shoot another hand on her table. End result was -$57.00 on that hand. I'm happy actually walking with a $10 or $15 profit and have been known to do that. I guess I'm leaning toward if I hold the first hand or two I might shoot another if the table isn't packed, but if I'm up early I'm gonna be off the table with as much profit as I can. There's always next time!
KCLady

Dave73

Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by Dave73 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:33 pm

On my recent trip to Vegas I was waiting for my wife to get ready and went to play at the Golden Gate. Bought in for $100. Rolled one hand, won a few bets, tipped the dealers and left with $176. I had time for another hand, but instead went back to the room to put that $76 win in the HOME envelope.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

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heavy
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by heavy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:10 pm

Small profits add up into big profits. I used to take $10K a year off the tables $37 at a time.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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heavy
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by heavy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:25 pm

Well, I could add to that comment that during those days - back in the late 90's and early 00's - I was playing 300 sessions a year and betting on every shooter that touched the dice. Which, to my way of thinking, goes to show you that you can eek out a long run win betting on randy. It just ain't easy.

The biggest issues we face as DI's are not table conditions, dickhead pit critters, or gaffed dice. The biggest issues we face are money management, discipline, and the crap between our ears.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

gargoil
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by gargoil » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:33 pm

Heavy wrote:The biggest issues we face as DI's are not table conditions, dickhead pit critters, or gaffed dice. The biggest issues we face are money management, discipline, and the crap between our ears.
You mean to tell me that the crap between our ears is manageable??? Well what do you know, Mrs Gargoil is right... :lol:
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Practice doesn't make perfect.... It just makes you better.

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pappyvanwinkle
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by pappyvanwinkle » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:57 pm

tabletop123, I'd say your pretty much spot on in your thinking. I will say I may risk that small profit depending on a number of factors, such as

how I'm feeling
how are my dice looking
what are table conditions(can I get the dice back quickly, anyone else at the table?)
etc

The small win makes it alittle easier to be aggressive in my betting. It been touched on here, but the the big factor is often ourselves, how do we feel about that small win?? In other threads I believe you've touched on how others might've bet something. The problem is someone else could tell you exactly how to bet and it might be correct, but the real question is how comfortable are you with betting that way? Betting is not a one size fits all unfortunately. Some of us are more comfortable at $5 tables, others $10 tables or perhaps $25 tables. Some people just are not comfortable with certain amounts. When I started out, I was a $5 player. I remember playing at a table, and talking to the dealers and them telling me about some guy who won like $30,000 the previous evening, I mentioned I wish I had been there for that and could've made that much. The dealers made a comment, "I wouldn't have made that betting the way I am" They weren't being condescending, it was the truth, back in those days, a big bet for me was a $60 6 or 8. Setting up for $54 or $52 across, am I out of my mind, couldn't even fathom trying to do that!!! I was making a profit, but no way I was ever going to approach $30,000. The thing was in my head, I never wanted to risk the profit I had made, so I would only make small amounts. Pressing up 1 unit every other hit or something is good in theory, try to make table max 1 unit at a time though!

So, what changed?? I changed, my thinking changed. I knew how to bet properly, plus I knew how to toss. I had to change my thinking. I made sure I was properly bankrolled for a certain number of sessions and I was just determined to play the way I wanted to play. I would liken it to poker if you play poker. You can play/bet a poker hand perfectly, but on the river card, if you get sucked out on, hey that's poker. You can go back and try to reanalyze everything you did on why you lost, but it happens. The question is how you handle it. If you played it perfectly/correctly, in the long run you'll make money, but don't let the variance of the game knock you of your game. You should be proud you played it the way you did, of course it sucks if you lost all your money at the river card.

So, back to your original question. It might depend on the circumstances. If the win is early in my sessions, sure, I'll risk the money. We can only make money if we are willing to risk it. If this is later in the evening, and I've already played a certain number of sessions, I can easily just book the small win since it's the end of the day and come back and hit them fresh the next day.

A key to alot of this is discipline I'd say. Discipline in maintaining your focus, and sticking to the plan. Your plan better include what to do if you start losing, hopefully the plan isn't buy in for another $1000 and increase your bets! Too often people get sucked up into the excitement of the game. I'm pretty non-emotional when pressing my bets, most people are like give me give me and I'm just like okay let's go to $x. Even Heavy is like that, he'll be ready for the dealer, his hands across his chest, in his deep voice saying nonchalantly, "next hit pays me $x, press it to $y"

PappyVanWinkle
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time

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heavy
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by heavy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:25 pm

You mean to tell me that the crap between our ears is manageable??? Well what do you know, Mrs Gargoil is right... :lol:
Gargoil - if you check the CD that came with your DVD (and I gave everyone another copy in Vegas Veterans Day Weekend) you'll find a self-hypnosis induction program a guy did for us many years ago. Copy it to an MP3 player or whatever and listen to it at bedtime at night or in the hotel room before going down to play.

I've actually considered putting together several of these things through the years. One for dice control visualization. One for betting strategy reinforcement. One to help players overcome stinkin' thinkin'. That sort of thing. I do think there's a market for it. Then again, I think there's a market for a special vitamin compound for gamblers. Toss in a little . . . well, I won't give away any (some day they might be patented) compounding formulas.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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Americraps
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by Americraps » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:39 pm

Hypnosis is an unbelievable powerful tool. You can change just about anything between your ears with a little hypno.

Tabletop123 - I agree with the small win and walk style as long as you also limit your losses. Otherwise, if you limit your wins, you are not giving yourself a fair shake in the profitability dept. Winning $30 ten times in a row feels real good until you allow yourself to lose $500 on the eleventh. It makes sense to allow yourself to win $60, or $70, but only to lose $50.
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

wild child
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by wild child » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:17 pm

.
Frequently there are posts on the subject of charting #'s rolled and the total number of rolls..

That is a strong method to honing your play and a measure of your growth.........

Beyond charting the number of rolls,there is

BOOK KEEPING

By Book Keeping if you maintain a "journal" of your Buy In and CASH OUT for each hand
and
CASINO SESSION

you will be better able to honestly measure to make SENSE out of YOUR DOLLARS...

You can make note on a 3''x5'' card and later transfer to a notebook...

If you can stay 8 units ahead at $5 units

AND GROW YOUR BANK to support $10 units

then by maintaining the same RATIO of BUY IN to BANK

in due time your minimal wager(s) become $15 units

and by maintaining DISCIPLINE in due time your bank grows

to support $25 minimal units and onward...in your growing COMFORT ZONE....

It is like the kid who was picked on by other kids

His grandfather gave him a newborn calf for a pet

with the agreement that each day for the next six months the kid would
lift the calf above his head 10 times each day..

The youngster agreed to the exercise of lifting that calf..

Long before the six months was over the other kids decided to not pick on the fellow

Growing your Bank Roll to underwrite larger minimal wagers may take longer than six(6) months.

It may go in fits and starts....

By holding to sound ratio it has a very strong chance to grow to support
THE IMPRESSIVE $$$$$ you may like to TAKE AWAY....

W C

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London Shooter
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by London Shooter » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:14 am

I like this:

" It makes sense to allow yourself to win $60, or $70, but only to lose $50"

This would probably be my approach too if I played a lot more craps than I do and I felt I had a positive expectation at the game. It's how I approach my sports betting. I am looking to win more than the amount of my buy-in, sometimes a lot more due to the odds I play at so have to be happy to take small hits along the way. But then in my sports betting I am very much expecting to win in the long term. I am happy to lose small, lose small, lose small, win big.

What I don't want is win small, win small, win small, lose big where as was said above the big win more than wipes out the small gains.

Craps for me right now is an occasional game, more for fun and entertainment as I get to grips with how best to bet it and aim towards a consistent throw. I'm happy to take a small win.

I think I'd want to be a bit more aggressive if I felt I could influence things my way, thereby as Americraps says, giving myself a fair shot at a much bigger win ie that monster hand that you just never know when its coming. So if I was in that zone and was winning small early in the session and I was happy with my throw, table conditions, dealers and so on, I'd be wanting to give it another shot.

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heavy
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Re: Accept the small profit & run?

Post by heavy » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:12 am

Something to think about - is going a step beyond just pressing your bets to stepping up your base bet. Although you may find it odd to think of someone having a slot strategy - there are a lot of them out there. One is a stair step play where you parlay any wins to a higher denomination machine. For example, let's say you put $50 in a penny machine and win $200. You take that $200 and go to a nickel machine. It hits for $360 and you take that to a quarter machine. You win on that one and take $500 to a dollar machine. Next think you know you're putting a pay out ticket for $1000 in a $5 machine and bam - bells and whistles. At craps you can do the same thing - without even changing tables. Start out with a base $5 bet on a $5 table. Win a hundred bucks and change your base bet to $10. Win $300 and go to $15. Win $500 and go to $25. Next thing you know you're playing black chips - - - maybe.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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