Thinking out loud!!!!

[Mad Professor]

Hi Tabletop,

Some gaming-jurisdictions have arcane rules when it comes to markers and extending casino-credit.

~In some cases, the cage (as dictated by the Casino Credit department) will re-confirm the player's identity and make him sign an acknowledgement as to his current Line-of-Credit drawdown-balance.

For example, if he's got a "low-6-card" (meaning that he's got a L-o-C of between $100,000 and $300,000) and he's already drawn down ~75% to 80% of it; then they'll want him to acknowledge that by having him sign a Balance Available confirmation.

~In some cases, the Credit Manager will do a limit-increase before the player actually requests it (or is even aware that a 'stretch' is available to himself). That comes about when a player is a 'very active' line-user, and after the CM 'pings' that player's bank account (to determine its actual balance at this very moment, as opposed to what the average checking-account bank-balance was when the credit-line was first set-up, or which were indicated during any subsequent-but-now-out-of-date balances on previous trips); and determines that the player is "Good for more" (meaning he's got a lot of headroom left in his bank account after allowing for his current loss)...then the Credit Manager will offer to extend the Line for a larger amount. For that, a Line Extension Authorization needs to be signed.

I discuss all of this, as well as related topics, in my main Casino Credit thread, as well as the "Golden Nugget...the candy-store table, Mr. Royalty, and other tales of yore" thread (which contains a VERY interesting discussion about the "Stretch-but-don't-Break" credit-granting concept) over on the Dice Institute message-board.


MP

[HornHighJoe]

... The reason people lose is because they leave their bets up too long, & they never attempt to (AT THE VERY LEAST) recoup their INITIAL investment BEFORE starting their pressing series!!!! ...

This is how I usually bet. I keep my bets the same until I get back my investment and then and only then do I begin a pressing strategy. The problem here is that someone who is aggressively pressing may eventually take the money from a place bet and get back their initial wager(s) while I'm still in the re-coup my initial bets stage. I even had someone comment to me how can I make any (real) money with the way I bet, and at times I understand. I could have a decent roll and only be up several units.

[London Shooter]

But equally, the flip side is if you don't press aggressively, then you won't make as many (real) losses as the person who made that comment

[freak]

When we started our craps adventure we were pretty conservative with only a PL and maybe a 6 or 8. Or darkside with a DP and a few DC bets. We had some nice wins and never a big loss quickly. But we longed to take better advantage of the long rolls. Seeing someone go across and then get a nice 18 - 25 roll hand was becoming more than we could take. We wanted to get fat on one of those big rolls. So we started going inside or across for a hit or two then regress and press. Well we got whacked one weekend by a bunch of short hands and lost a lot, fast. We pulled back and tried the Heavy $30 6 & 8. Worked great...provided the 6 & 8 are rolling. Then we read John Patricks's advanced craps and played with a variety of x hits and down plays. We were encouraged that this could allow us to play a long time on a small bankroll. But we still struggled with watching the long rolls go by after we were down. Then the whole "volitility" thing started to make more sense when I read JP say "If you want to bet bigger than bring a bigger bankroll." My problem was I wanted to bet $110 inside with a $300 buy in. It can work, but most times it won't. So in our latest phase I decide 1) How many sessions do I want to play 2) How aggressive am I feeling I need to be. 3) How long will we be at the casino. 4) What is my win goal. 5) How much am I willing to invest in an effort to entertain myself and possibly achieve my win goal. From there we backtrack and split up the money into sessions and create a play that fits each session. If we buy in for $140 we can afford a DP plus a 6&8. If I buy in for $320 I can afford a $5 PL with $5 odds and a $12 6 & 8 for two hits and down. If I buy in for $600 I can do a Heavy $30 6& 8 regresss to $18 play.

I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go. But I am starting to work out in my own mind the connection between "the play", my session bankroll, my playing mood and the time I have at the casino. Conservative plays allow for a long play, no chance for a big loss and little hope for a big win. Agressive plays put me in a position to recover quickly after a loss, able to grab the really big score but expose me to a big loss and fast exit. The discipline of managing this interconnecting relationship is a constant battle when under the spell of the dice. It's especially hard to come down and then see more potential wins pass me by. But the rewards have been far less frustration in the casino and a peaceful rather than depressed 5 hour ride back home.

[LeftyAJ]

I try to get 3 hits & I'm DONE for that particular hand. (this is on my OWN shooting). You will have extended hands, & on those hands wherein your shot is becoming "DIALED IN", You have to TAKE A CHANCE, & start your bets again!!! YOU WILL get burnt, sometimes, but I'd rather give myself a chance at a nice profit, than to toss a 30 minute hand & only be rewarded with 3 hits!!!

Tabletop

I think this is the perfect strategy when betting on random rollers. Two or three hits and down.......period.

But when I'm shooting or another DI I'm very familiar with is tossing, once I "qualify" myself, himself or herself I never do the three hit and down strategy. I can't count how many times that "first hand of the day" was actually your best hand of the session. I'm a conservative bettor, but once I get a couple of hits whether it's the first or last hand of the day, I start to press. Just my spin on this.

Aj

[bryguyUCLA05]

Very interesting reading the forums the last few days about taking bets off after hitting two or three place bets. I've only been playing craps for 18 months and I've actually only played 4 sessions in Vegas. I had heard that it's bad etiquette to take down bets in the middle of the roll. It's amazing how my eyes have been opened these past few days.

[SHOOTITALL]

I had heard that it's bad etiquette to take down bets in the middle of the roll.

It is not bad etiquette to protect your money. That one you can lay to rest and forget. For myself, I am never sure where the "middle" of a roll is. When PVW was throwing that 92 hand, I simply could not believe he was tossing so many numbers. I was in and out of the felt a half dozen times, slightly scared at the length of the hand. When he finally sevened out, I had no money on the felt.

[Golfer]

Breyguy, you choose what to do with your cash. Never, ever worry about what others think about your money and what you do with it.

Taking bets down and/or regressing is a powerful tool to stay in the game and avoid crashing and burning. MP and others may put forth math that says in the long run it is better to leave bets up if you have an advantage. If you bet on someone else how do you know what their advantage is?

If someone, especially a dealer or box person, says to you it is bad etiquette to take bets down, look them in the eye and tell them, "when Ms. Manners visits the table you will issue your apologies". You may also add, "until that time f**k the etiquette".

Good Luck


PS: Keep reading here til you puke, then read some more. Learn to play the darkside and oh yeah, when ready explore the wonderful world of hop bets !

[amish dude]

I try to get 3 hits & I'm DONE for that particular hand. (this is on my OWN shooting). You will have extended hands, & on those hands wherein your shot is becoming "DIALED IN", You have to TAKE A CHANCE, & start your bets again!!! YOU WILL get burnt, sometimes, but I'd rather give myself a chance at a nice profit, than to toss a 30 minute hand & only be rewarded with 3 hits!!!

Tabletop

I think this is the perfect strategy when betting on random rollers. Two or three hits and down.......period.

But when I'm shooting or another DI I'm very familiar with is tossing, once I "qualify" myself, himself or herself I never do the three hit and down strategy. I can't count how many times that "first hand of the day" was actually your best hand of the session. I'm a conservative bettor, but once I get a couple of hits whether it's the first or last hand of the day, I start to press. Just my spin on this.

Aj

would that be 2 or 3 hit on all place bets or 2 or 3 toss's