Getting Better But Worse...??

[ComeOut7]

I am very new here but not to the game....Absolutely crave more time to practice. I have conquered the toss by leaving the dice in a nice small area but the SEVEN will not stop...It seems the better the toss and controlled landing ...the worse the results....
The 3V does not work for me...The 2V is almost an instant SEVEN....And the hard ways lasts only for about 10 tosses. I have a table at home, small but works, and really enjoy the game.
Believe it or not I have random rolled a 52 toss making 6 points at Sams Town Tunica 6 months ago. Then I started trying to control the dice and there goes my long rolls...
Any help out there is GREATLY appreciated. I am sure I'm in a lot more qualified company here than I am....
Thanks

[shunkaha]

At a guess I'd say you're working under the presumption that you have to have long rolls to make money, while long rolls are nice I would trade them for consistency every time. If you are upset that your average rolls between a 7 only extends to roughly 10, I would say stop worrying because random hands only extend to eight rolls [due to come out 7s, etc], and statistically a 7 occurs 1 roll per 6... if you can manage consistently to move that to the realm of 1 in 10 you have nothing to worry about. Also six months in you are simply hitting something of a plateau that many hit, it is something of a paradox that at a point a shooter gets just good enough to maintain axial control to the extent that a hardway becomes more dangerous due to double pitches yet a V2/V3 is still not safe enough due to either a double pitch or a die getting off axis.

Think of it like learning to pitch in baseball, with each toss of the dice you have to exhibit a level of control of 2 objects that a MLB pitcher doesn't even have to exhibit of the one object... and there is both positive and negative influence that can be exhibited. I have been doing this for many years as have others and I have days in which I have alot of PSOs but I balance that by having rolls in the teens more frequently than a random roller. The important thing is not what this hand did, what you did today, etc... what is important is the long term trend your shooting is doing. The best way I can illustrate the problem with looking at short term results as indicative of anything is this, on my best day of practice I've maintained a near 20 SRR across between 100 - 200 rolls on my worst it was closer to a 4 SRR, if I made decisions based on either I would go broke or stay out of the casino when the truth is closer to my long term SRR being above average but not so much that you could pick it out at a table often as not. Six months into learning to be a DI you're already expecting to have results comparable to people that have practiced several hours a day for yrs, my best advice is continue on your course, record your results and see what your trend is across the next book of rolls or better yet the next 5 - 10 books because variance can be huge across a small sampling or series of them but you want to know what your results are without variance being a major factor [either positive or negative influence causing variance]. Once you have enough tosses you'll know more about what your "norm" is and can judge what is happening to it and possibly why.

[ComeOut7]

Thank you for the response....Better dice control results will take a lot more time with me. I guess I get frustrated when a random roller walks up to the table and knocks everyone's chips over on every throw but still manages to hit 6 points??
The 3V set should be the best set for me but I just 7 out almost instantly....Craps numbers have moved in at times and my chip rack has leaks...LOL!

The game really pulls me in, hopefully I can adjust to see it payoff....

[heavy]

I feel your pain. Next time you're setting the V-3 use a mutant. Set the left die with the 3 on top and the 1 facing you. Set the right die with the 2 on top and the 3 facing you. If that does not help - switch sides and put the 2-3 on the left and the 3-1 on the right. And if that doesn't work rotate the 2-3 die 180 so that you're looking at 2-4 and try the left right swap again with each mutant. One of those will likely work for you.

[shunkaha]

I'd say at present the reason you have a problem with the V3 set is you likely are tossing one die off axis a high percentage of the time. If you view the dice using a hardway set you'll see that on a double pitch you have 4 ways to 7 out from a total of 16 possible variations, if one die is off axis you only have 2 of 16 possibilities that yield a 7. On a V3 you have 2 of 16 possibilities that yield a 7 but if one die goes off axis you revert to having 4 of 16 possibilities that yield a 7.

The reason many beginners use a hardways set is they have a high percentage of 1 die off axis results and the hardways set is somewhat forgiving of that, the reason many experienced DIs tend to use a V2/V3/X6 set is they have better axial control and thus more results with both die on axis. The V2/3/X6 sets are more forgiving when both die are on axis, if you check your results on those 7 outs you might well find one die is off axis and that is where your 7 is coming from, if that is the case it would explain how you manage 10 rolls with the hardway set... you have just enough control to keep 1 die on axis more than it should be randomly but not both, as you exert more control over the off axis die you should see your hardway set SRR go down while your V2/3/X6 set SRR rise. Just be prepared for that control to 1] take time, and 2] not be 100% consistent.

[pappyvanwinkle]

RBBSR1

I read your post, and wanted to ask what you've been reading/who have you been working with/listening to? You made the following statement

The 3V set should be the best set for me but I just 7 out almost instantly

My first statement to that is says who?? According to something you read or someone that told you this is the best set for 6 and 8's? Your assertion is that your not profitable because you don't have long rolls. I don't think long rolls are necessarily the problem, if you want to be profitable. I'd say the key to you making money from craps is recognizing where you have any consistency and capitalizing on it. My quick answer is, if you 7 out almost instantly, play the don'ts.

Longer answer: CHANGE YOUR SET. Bear with me, since you really didn't provide us any information to really help. I'll state some assumptions which may or may not be true and based on that I'll make some suggestions. Okay, you said you use the 3V and seven out almost immediately. If this is indeed the case, could be a double pitch issue, if that's true, go with it as opposed to fighting it, use the all-sevens set. It could also be 1 die off axis. Again don't know, you didn't say if the sevens you were getting were 3/4, 5/2 or 6/1. What you really need to do is record the data to tell if there is any consistency in your toss. I would suggest you try using Bone Tracker, get at least 72 tosses and see what it says. Depending on the data, it will tell you where your strongest and where your weakest and it will show you some other sets to use to potentially increase your SRR, box numbers, horns etc. You can actually see from the data that you might have a double pitch problem, single pitch, or who knows you might just be random.

The key is practice. One set of data is not significant, if your on axis percentages stay consistent over multiple practice sessions, then I'd say to change your set to a different set to produce the results you want.

Pappy

[ComeOut7]

Thanks to all trying to help....I will take a log today just to see what actually happens...Using the hard ways set, yes the six shows a lot but rarely the 6 and one. I have thrown a six on only one dice regularly.
Today is a great day to practice so I will let you know the outcome.....
Thanks for all the help....Let's make some $$$!!!

[heavy]

Get on any of Maddog's posts and look for his link to download Bonetracker. Spend a couple of hours learning the ins and outs of how it works, then put together a book of 720 or so rolls and see if you change your mind about what set to use.