AN OVERLOOKED AND UNDERESTIMATED BET!

[FredP]

I assume that everybody in this forum understands the probability odds and payouts of the game of Craps.
This is the way how we conclude that casinos have the edge over the gamblers.
Do you agree so far? Good
In the whole Craps layout,probably in every table game layout,there is only one bet with POSITIVE EV!!!
Let me repeat the last one, in the whole of the table games there is only one bet with POSITIVE EV!!!
Of course we are talking about CRAPS!
Why you think the name of the game is synonymous with this bet...?!
But let's take a closer look at the "ANY CRAPS" bet;

As we know, the payout of 1+1 (2) is 30 to 1 which gives the house an advantage because the true odds are 36 to 1
The payout of 1+2 or 2+1 (3) is 15 to 1 which makes it a bad investment because the true (in theory) odds are 36 to 2 or 18 to 1
The same goes for 5+6 or 6+5 (11) and finally 6+6 (12) is the same case as the snake eyes (2)
All those bets have been called sucker bets for obviously a good reason.
But what about ANY CRAPS bet?!
This bet pays 7 to 1 which means if I bet 10 USD I would receive 70 plus my wager of 10,a total of 80
Now let me remind you the possible outcome combinations of all CRAPS: 1+1, 1+2, 2+1, 5+6, 6+5, 6+6 which makes a TOTAL of 6 COMBINATIONS!
So the casinos have decided to pay 7 to 1 instead of 5 to 1 or even 4 to 1 like on "ANY SEVEN" bet!!!
For example the ANY SEVEN bet has a total of 6 possible combinations,which is 1+6, 6+1, 2+5, 5+2, 3+4 and 4+3
On the other hand, ANY CRAPS has also a total of 6 combinations BUT INSTEAD OF PAYING 4 TO 1 , PAYS 7 TO 1!!!
Both bets are for 1 time roll (no push,break even or contract bet)
My conclusion is that THIS IS THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THE RULE!
Before you try to decline the very obvious fact I have presented you, think this:
THE VERY SAME THEORY WHICH CONFIRMS THE HOUSE EDGE, HERE WORKS FOR THE GUESTS INSTEAD OF THE HOUSE!!!
SO IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT WHAT I'VE JUST SAID, THEN YOU DON'T ACCEPT ANY OF THE THEORIES ABOUT THE HOUSE EDGE!!!
Of course there are also other,more complicate bets which have a bigger PLAYER EDGE than just betting a progression on ANY CRAPS starting on 1 buck, but I'm not going to reveal them!

Since when is 11 a craps number?

Fred

[ComeOut7]

A good topic but....Any Craps does not include the Yo 11....
It is though the best no house edge bet on the game....
Remember the true odds are throwing a craps is 1:9.....(2,3 and 12) out of 36.

Strategy that take the edge out, start on a $5 table and increase it $5 after each roll. If the craps numbers show up in 15 rolls or less you either make money or break even....After 15 you will lose
slowly....But if odds happen you will beat the house every time...
Hope this helps...Good Luck

[heavy]

Beware the negative progression. I've seen guys lose $100K hopping the sevens because everybody knows "it HAS to roll eventually."

[London Shooter]

-3 on $100 means a fortune to us in our lifetime of gambling

[captainahg]

Just a Random Player but think about a Horn Bet in combination with a Hopping 7. Works pretty well on come out roll. Twelve possibilities that all pay well.

[SHOOTITALL]

capt: That is a "Whirl" or in some places, "World" bet.

A player's bet in craps that the next roll will be a two, three, seven, eleven or twelve. The whirl bet is made in multiples of five, with one unit on each of the numbers.

[Golfer]

The world bet is great, when showing. A drain when not. KNow your numbers. If they fall into the world bet hit 'em hard.

Good Luck

[pappyvanwinkle]

I remember in Tunica, I converted a player to a world better on the come out. I was tossing horns on the come out and pressing the bet. After like the 5 hit the player tells the dealer to make the same bet as I was. If I recall he got like 2-3 hits and was happy as a clam, course didn't understand the bet, but was humorous

I remember a table at Bellagio, we had more than half the table betting the world on the come out. It was funny to see them setting the bet on the layout. I don't think they ever saw so many people betting the world.

I think the most I ever got up to was a $50 world

Pappy

[shunkaha]

capt: That is a "Whirl" or in some places, "World" bet.

A player's bet in craps that the next roll will be a two, three, seven, eleven or twelve. The whirl bet is made in multiples of five, with one unit on each of the numbers.

The two are not quite the same thing, If I roll a 7 with a Whirl/World I have a push in that I do not lose the horn but I also win nothing extra. If I instead hop the 7s a roll of 7 is not a push it wins $15 while I lose my $4 horn and the other 2 hopped 7s for a net gain of $9. Therefore a whirl vs Horn/7 hop pays out as follows if the dice ever managed to conform to the statistic averages and you brought enough to place the bet fresh each roll:

1 x 31 [for the 2]
2 x 16 [for the 3]
6 x 5 [for the 7]
2 x 16 [for the 11]
1 x 31 [for the 12]

a total of $156 of the original $180

1 x 31 [for the 2]
2 x 16 [for the 3]
6 x 16 [for the 7]
2 x 16 [for the 11]
1 x 31 [for the 12]

a total of $222 of the original $252

On the whirl you retained 86.667% of the original amount you wagered on a horn/hopping 7 [$1 each] you retained 88.09% of the original amount you wagered. Granted they are both bad bets but they are not identical bets nor would they be placed or pay identically.

Keep in mind that is taking all the winnings down each time and betting again with money from your rack for the 36 rolls [also keep in mind the $31, $16, and $5 are due to a win of $30, $15, and $4 while retaining the original $1 on the winning bet].

[captainahg]

As I said I'm just a random player but I've noticed when I bet the Horn ($4) and a 3 way hopping seven ($6) on the come out roll there is a high chance of a second Horn or 7 hitting. I have been doubling my bet. Statistically it is crazy but it seems to work.

[shunkaha]

As I said I'm just a random player but I've noticed when I bet the Horn ($4) and a 3 way hopping seven ($6) on the come out roll there is a high chance of a second Horn or 7 hitting. I have been doubling my bet. Statistically it is crazy but it seems to work.

You have a 33% chance of hitting a horn-7 bet anytime you bet it, whether that is a high chance or not depends on how you define high and how worth it you feel the bet is, which likely depends also on 1] whether the shooter actually possesses an edge on those numbers and, 2] the payouts on that bet. Since the house has an edge of approx 12% in most US venues I tend to be gun shy of that prop bet whereas if I were in England I might well play it because the house edge is closer to 5.5% and if I could overcome it that would be where it would happen. Not that I am warming up a passport to try but for those that can hit horn bets with high frequency it might be the land of milk and honey... or at least a place to play French Roulette if you weren't at the craps table [which with an even money house edge of 1.35% I might camp at the Roulette wheel and forgo dice altogether while searching for a biased wheel if they still exist].

[London Shooter]

Yes, you prop bettors should come over here sometime to see how much longer your money may last, or alternatively really mess with your body clock and take a trip to Australia to find the same odds

[Dylanfreake]

Where`s vowels? He could tell you all about a positive progression on BigRED/anycraps and moving on up with the horn bet. He would have the dealer`s on the felt , also, and tell them what to put back up and what to put in the toke box.

The dealers were happy; vowels was happy, but the game was slow.

Golfer may remember exactly how vowels played?

[SHOOTITALL]

Did not realize a 7 hop of $5. That is pretty a pretty strong bet. Good luck.

[Golfer]

I never had the chance to play with Vowels. His online handle was aeiou. I was out yesterday and there was a newbie playing next to stick and they adopted him, helping him manage his money without a hustle. He cashed in for over $400 after a buy in of $100. He was playing a C&E almost all day and it kept hitting. My bets were not hitting, resulting ina loss of $90. \

Later

[shunkaha]

Did not realize a 7 hop of $5. That is pretty a pretty strong bet. Good luck.

If you're referring to my post regarding the Whirl vs a hop, the any 7 is a very weak bet since it pays at $4 for every $1 bet but you do not lose the original $1 thus if you looked at the mean of six 7s per 36 rolls you should expect to retain $30 for every $36 bet [$1 at a time]. My point is that the any 7 bet that is a portion of a Whirl bet has a 16.67% house edge while the hop bet of $1 each only has an 11.11% house edge, making a hop the superior bet if you feel you have to make a prop bet on the 7 in relation to the horn. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough when I said, "Keep in mind that is taking all the winnings down each time and betting again with money from your rack for the 36 rolls [also keep in mind the $31, $16, and $5 are due to a win of $30, $15, and $4 while retaining the original $1 on the winning bet]."

Put another way, all prop bets are bad to a degree its just not all bad bets are equally bad... unless of course you happen to be winning it and then there is no such thing as a bad winning bet, only better ones.

[heavy]

Vowels is so busy being a successful businessman (in the lumber business) that he doesn't have much time for craps lately. He is one of my Facebook friends, so I'm still able to keep tabs on him and swap messages from time to time. It was fun watching him work the table, but the pit hated it because he slowed the game down to a crawl with all of his cross hedges and hoppers. And every toss of the dice it seems like he got paid on something. However, for every $10 he got paid he probably lost $15. Sort of like playing a 5 coin in slot machine and hearing the bells ring and seeing the lights flash because you "won" 3 coins. No, you LOST 2 coins. Anyway, I'm wandering afield.

[captainahg]

If I'm not mistaken a 3 way 7 $6 Hop bet pays $32. Combining that with a $4 Horn bet seems to work out well. The dice can do anything but 6/5 5/2 with my throw works for me. My gal says it's all in how you use your hands.

[heavy]

Yeah, $32 and down. They'll always try to keep you up and pay less. But combining that with the horn bet means you're tossing out $10 in prop action on every come out. Of course, that's coming from a guy who routinely tosses out $7 prop action on the come out - a $5 World bet plus a $2 high low.