Dice Doctor Plays

[heavy]

Since the book The Dice Doctor by Sam Grafstein is out of print and difficult - if not impossible to find, I thought I'd start a thread recapping some of Dr. Sam's classic plays. Many of these are well known to the old timers around her. Some of you newer guys may be familiar with them as well. They are drawn from Grafstein's 50 plus years as a player, game operator and owner. His plays were, for the most part, common sense money management based systems designed to limit losses on any one shooter while providing unlimited winning opportunities.

I think the first strategy we'll talk about is Grafstein's "Expense Money" play. Grafstein was largely a Dark Side player, although he would take whatever the table gave him. He had certain "rules" as to when he would bet and when he would not. For example, if a player at the table beat him once (say tossing a seven on the come out and knocking off his DP) he would not bet on that player again that turn around the table.

He also had a specific daily betting stake, which he typically divided up into smaller amounts that he would be willing to wager on an individual shooter. If, for example, his table stake for the day was $300 and there were six players at the table he would apportion his chips into $50 "stacks" in his rack. He'd always put his betting money in the front rack and his lock up in the back rack.

Assuming he was playing a $5 Double Odds game he would play $5 on the DP and then lay full Double Odds. That's a $20 lay to win $10 in the four or ten, $15 lay to win $10 on the five and nine, and $12 lay to win $10 on the six and eight. Based on these numbers, he would make as many Don't Pass and Don't Come bets as he could until he had his entire $50 on the table. However, if he did not have enough chips left to make another Don't Come bet with full odds he stopped betting.

For example. Let's say he had a $5 DP and the shooter tossed the 10. He would lay $20 giving him $25 at risk. He would play a $5 DC and if the four rolled next he would lay another $20. That put his entire $50 in action on the player and that was all for this shooter - at least until the bets were resolved. However, let's say the second number tossed was a nine. He would lay $15 odds and still have $5 available for that shooter. But since he did not have sufficient chips to lay odds on that $5 after it traveled, he would not bet it. He'd simply hold on to it to be added to his back rack if the bets on the layout won - or to be moved to the end of his front rack to start an additional betting stack if they did not. Clear as mud? Bottom line - with a $300 buy in he could only have had two bets up and working - a DP with double odds and a DC with double odds.

Okay, let's run through a series.

Place $5 on the Don't Pass.
If the shooter tosses a seven or eleven you're through with him until next trip around the table.
If the shooter tosses a two or three you parlay the $5 win to the Don't Pass.
At this point Grafstein would tell you that parlaying those winning craps number to the Don't Pass is one of the best ways you have of overcoming the house's edge with the Come Out sevens and elevens.
When the shooter rolls a point number - lay odds. It's possible that if you had a parlayed bet on the Don't Pass that you'll have to invest your entire allotment of chips for that player into Lay odds. If that's what you have to do - do it.
If you have sufficient chips to make a DC bet and lay odds then do so.
If the shooter repeats his first number on his second toss - making his Pass - your DC will travel. Do not take it down. But do not make a third bet on this shooter. Wait for a resolution on the second bet - and a new shooter before tossing out any additional action.
Let's say the shooter sevened out instead of making that first pass. Then you are a winner for that shooter and you continue to bet on the next shooter - beginning with a $5 DP.
If you ended up being a loser on that shooter, however, your next bet would be a $10 DP. All of the above rules continue to apply, including parlaying craps winners.
All net winnings are placed into the back or lock-up portion of the chip rack.
Once the dice have made a trip all the way around the table - count up your total bankroll. If you've made enough money to cover your "expenses" for the day - then you could call it a day. However, why quit when you're winning? Let's say your stake has increased from $300 to $540. Divide that by the number of players at the table (6) and you'll discover that you now have $90 to risk per shooter. That means you can increase the size of your DP and DC bets - and possibly have as many as two or three DC bets, depending on what points are established.

Okay, that's fairly straightforward. Let me quickly run through Grafstein's flat bet progression. Remember, this is the amount he would use on the DP or DC, increasing his bets on a win.

$5 - $7 - $10 - $15 - $25 - $35 - $50 - $75 - $125 - $250 - $350 - $500 - $700 - $1000 - $1500 - $2500 - table max

That pretty much sums it up. At least I hope I got the gist of it down right. If any of you old timers (Golfer, Dylanfreak, SIA) who have read Grafstein have anything to add - this would be the time to chime in.

[acpa]

one of The Doctor's Systems that I have played is an attempt to get all six points coved with don't bets and then get a seven out without any of the numbers repeating.

Start out with a DP bet. 2,3 roll parlay it, continue the parlay until a point or natural is rolled. if a natural is rolled on the come out you or through with that shooter.

If a point is rolled you bet a DC. 2,3 roll parlay the don't come until a point is rolled or a natural is rolled. If a different point number is rolled, do another DC, if a 11 is rolled quit betting on that shooter. if a seven is rolled you or through with than shooter. if your original point is rolled you are through with shooter.

You take no odds on your DP/DC.

I can only remember twice when I got all six point covered and a seven let me win all six bets.

I didn't keep track of the times I lost all six bets on one shooter.

I think his book should be read by any dice player who does try to control the dice.

Noah

[Americraps]

Heavy wrote-
"If the shooter tosses a two or three you parlay the $5 win to the Don't Pass. At this point Grafstein would tell you that parlaying those winning craps number to the Don't Pass is one of the best ways you have of overcoming the house's edge with the Come Out sevens and elevens."
Doesn't it seem like the parlayed win would be more wisely spent on increasing the lay odds?

[heavy]

I think what Grafstein felt the even m oney completed parlay was worth more than additional free odds that would be paid off at less than even money. That's a very old school approach to the Don'ts that a lot of us have trouble finding fault with. Of course, if you were talking to an old schooler like John Patrick, he would tell you to rack the $5 win.

[SHOOTITALL]

On the parlay, you are getting 3:1 and if you dodge the sheriff and his deputy, you have the better of it. Think of a 4 rolling as the point. You have 2:1 in your favor with a 3:1 bet. Now if you are a dufus, the house will certainly let you remove the parlay portion or all of it and place it as odds. good luck.

[realtime]

H,

I saw this book at a Barnes & Noble sometime in the past 3 months. Looks like it is available online at BN.

Do I have the right book?


http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/dice-do ... ice+doctor

[acpa]

that looks like it, a later edition than the one I have

noah

[Kelph]

Sam didn't believe that tables were hot or cold and you certainly couldn't chart for them. He said whatever you think you see is just one shooter away from heading in the other direction (not his exact words).

If I remember correctly Sam and two other well known knowledgeable players who did chart were having that conversation over lunch one day and they decided to show Sam they were right. They charted, bought in and won but Sam only grumbled saying it meant nothing.

I truly wish I could have met Sam but as they say.....be careful what you wish for.

Kelph

[heavy]

Hey realtime - just goes to show you. When I looked the book up a few months ago it was going for around $70 in used copies only. Now I see it on Amazon - $70 new and $6 used.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new

Then there's that B&N copy for $15 and a Nook copy for $10? Who'd have thought this book would ever have made it into e-format? Glad to see the book is back in print.

By the way - here's another Grafstein book for sale for $90! Different title:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CF4Q8wIwAQ#

[realtime]

here is the Amazon listing that I found for $11.21 new.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... &x=16&y=15

[Mad Professor]

Sam was a real character who played in as many (if not more) back-room casinos in the Toronto and Buffalo area, than he did in legal ones.

In Toronto, he mostly frequented an upstairs joint operated my Maxie Bluestein above the Town Tavern, one across from the old Greenwood racetrack (our friend Appistappis would probably remember the name of that joint), and another huge banquet-hall sized one in the back of a deli at Eglinton & Lawrence.

Interestingly enough, as close as I can tell; his son doesn't adhere to any of old Sam's betting-methods.


MP

[Jonah]

Or you could get "it" "new" from:

http://www.gamblersbookclub.com/index.p ... 0GRAFSTEIN

THE DICE DOCTOR, 146 pages Paperbound, 1990 — $10.00 (this is the "old" Revised and Expanded "green" book)

THE DICE DOCTOR - REVISED, 222 pages Paperbound, 2011 — $14.95


You can even get:

AXIS POWER CRAPS DICE CONTROL SEMINAR FULL VERSION PLUS AUDIO CD, in Craps Books, Haltom, Steve $189.00 (Ship class C)

or

AXIS POWER DICE CONTROL SEMINAR LIMITED VERSION, in Craps Books, Haltom, Steve $89.00 (Ship class C)

http://www.gamblersbookclub.com/Category/92-Craps_books

[Mad Professor]

Here’s a funny Sam Grafstein story I thought I’d share with you from back in the day.

One night when old Sam was going to play in the (illegal) upstairs casino at the bar that used to be across from the old Greenwood racetrack (and whose name I still can’t recall); he was stopped by the door-man former-boxer-turned-Cotroni/Commisso-enforcer, Eddie Melo (of R. v. Askov 16,000-criminal-cases-dropped notoriety, and Eli Askov’s literal gambling/extortion-racket partner-in-crime).

It seems that Sam had gotten a little rowdy the night before when one of his side-bets (made with another player, and not with the house itself) had won; but where the other player didn’t want to pay Sam off on their personal wager.

Sam wanted the house to enforce the payoff, or at least side with him in the dispute that ensued (wherein the other player said that the bet was made with Sam as a ribbing sort of “I bet you $1,000 that the shooter will make this Point” joke, but wherein Sam had faded the action by agreeing to it with an “You’ve got a bet” acknowledgement).

Needless to say, Sam got a little miffed that ‘the house’ wouldn’t enforce that private bet…reasoning that a bet made at the table…for all to hear, even if it was a private one, was in-effect, a bet made with the house; and so they should enforce its immediate payoff.

So anyway, upon entering the casino the next night, Eddie Melo stops Sam to talk to him…Sam was expecting Eddie to tell him that he had to behave and so on; but instead Eddie offers to ‘collect’ the $1,000 debt from that other player, and matter-of-factly tells Sam that the collection-fee will be half ($500) of the amount.

Upon hearing this, Sam gets all indignent (or at least as indignent as common-sense dictates that he could get with a guy who everyone knew had already clipped at least six guys, if not more). So Sam starts negotiating over the price…finally settling on a $400 fee…whereupon Eddie pulls out a wad of money…peels off $600…gives it to Sam, who then realizes that the in-debt player has ALREADY given Melo the money to pay off Sam the next time he came in.

Sam of course was fuming when he realized that he had just ‘spent’ $400 needlessly; but what was he supposed to do? Argue with someone who took pleasure in inflicting pain on people if there was a buck to be made?

Nope, Sam just shook his head in resignation, and headed for the craps table.


MP

[Dylanfreake]

I love those stories about the Dice Doctor.

I have used the pensioners play and the Daddy play plus Mrs. Dice Doctors wrong way play.

I started "Cowtippin" because of the Dice Doctors parlaying of craps wins. Gail made me quit yelling ,"Cowtippin`" in the casinos because it embarrassed her. So now , I say or yell nothing at craps tables unless I am spoken to. I basically only answer questions.

[Mad Professor]

Hi Dylanfreake,

If you’ve ever watched the Phillip Seymour Hoffman/Minnie Driver true-story gambling-embezzlement movie, “Owning Mahowny”; you’ll no doubt recall the loan-shark character played by Maury Chaykin.

Chaykin once mentioned that he modelled that ‘Frank Perlin’ character after Maxie Bluestein whom Chaykin had become well-acquainted with while frequenting the many illegal casinos of Toronto (where Maury lived until his death a couple of years ago) during the 70’s and 80’s.

There are several Casino Rama players that used to play alongside Sam Grafstein pretty much every night of the week, except for the Sabbath and high-holidays (Sam himself wasn’t what you would consider to be an ‘observant’ Jew, but his wife was; so by default he sort of was too) .

I remember one time, my associates were doing a political-fundraiser for Alan Tonks in the basement banquet-room of the Holy Blossom Temple (on Bathurst near Eglinton). Tonks was mayor of the Borough of York at the time, but was running to become Chairman for the newly-amalgamated Metropolitan Toronto city council.

Long story short, when all of the ‘official’ fund-raising stuff (speeches, glad-handing, etc.) was over (and after Tonks and Greg Sorbara had left); Grafstein pulled back a curtained-off area of the hall to reveal a mini-casino replete with a craps table, two BJ tables, a Big Six wheel, a Crown-and-Anchor wheel, one double-ended roulette layout, and four poker tables…all fully staffed with tuxedo-shirted dealers. It was quite the set up. Sam was in his absolute glory, lording over the entire operation.

I’m not sure if it’s widely known or not; but Sam had worked in a number of the illegal casinos starting in the early 50’s and steadily through to the mid-70’s, when he found that he could have much more fun (but not more money) on the ‘other’ side of the table…so he gradually cut back on the dealing/managing/organizing side of things as he stepped up his playing hours; but he remained involved in helping to manage some of them up until the mid-80’s. There was good money in running those places…with some of the better houses bringing in ~$30,000 a week; but Sam loved to play much more than he liked to 'work'.

To my mind, Grafstein was the ultimate “streak-seeker” who actively sought to hunt down hot-tables all over Vegas (but mostly downtown)…and in the pre-cell-phone days of the late 70’s and early 80’s; that was NOT an easy task. I’ve got a couple of funny stories about that if anyone is interested.

In one of my really ancient dicesetter.com articles, I once wrote about his rag-tag “streak-seeker” group (though not by name), and how they’d run from casino to casino in downtown LV when word spread that a hot hand was happening somewhere. At first they used word-of-mouth, then alpha-numeric pagers, and then brick-sized cellphones. I’ll see if I can dig up that old article, and post a link to it.

When Sam died, I was out of the country; but were I here, I definitely would have made a shiva call on the family. Although I never got into too many of his betting-methods, there’s no denying that he had a profound influence on many players in our community.


MP

[acpa]

MP,

Would love to hear some stories about the Guy.

Noah

[Mad Professor]

Hi Noah,


Sam Grafstein was in his glory when he had a vast selection of heavily-engaged craps tables to choose from.

If there was only one table in action; then he’d just camp out there and employ one of his many “grind” methods…usually of the Darkside variety, until things started to ‘happen’; whereupon he’d transition over to the Do-side of things if events were convincing enough.

However, what he loved much more than any of those grinds, was to seek out hot-trending/hot-streaking tables…or ‘streakers’ as his gang euphemistically called them. He also sought out the cold-streaking ones, but not anywhere near as fervently, and usually only if he was already actually there.

That is, he go out of his way to chase down a happening-now hot-streak that he’d just heard about; but he’d rarely even change tables to exploit a cold-streak unless it was so bad that “even the liars are complaining!”


For this next part, we have to rewind the history-reel back to the mid-to-late 80’s and into the very-early 90’s (Sam last played into the first month or so of 1993).

~Binion’s Horseshoe had two dice-pits…a ten-table set-up in the original Shoe (where the craps pit is currently located), and another seven-table pit in the old Mint section of the place.

~Right across the street at the GN, they were in the throes of reducing their table-count down from eight, to a more manageable six.

So those two joints, all on their own, could usually be counted on for having at least 20 or more tables going full-rip on a typical weekday night…which, to the Dice Doctor, represented a ripe-field of potential hot-streak generators.

Depending on how things had been going profit-wise, Sam would either run back and forth between those three pits (the two at the Shoe and the one at the G-Nugget) himself, or he’d ‘hire’ someone else to do it for him (and they'd come running to notify Sam which table in which pit the hot-table was happening at).

You’d see Grafstein scampering about from pit to pit with that “Anything hot, anything hot?” look on his face, or you’d see him listening intently to other tables in that pit for the faintest rising-murmur sounds of a warming-hand.

Once he found a table that was streaking; he’d be over there in a flash…looking for which box-numbers had the most action; then betting on them first.

It wouldn’t be unfair to characterize Sam as a “moderately-heavy presser”, even by today’s standards. His typical press-move was a 50% bump on each paying-hit (with the only nod to sizing-elasticity being when it suited conventional bet-values, ie. a pressed-up $75 ‘9’ being bumped to $100 instead of $110).

In racking one-half of each payout, and using the other half as press-fuel; I can’t recall even one time when he plateaued or ratcheted-back his bets until a hand lost (whereafter he’d drop down to one-unit, if anything). To him, the table-limit was pretty much his only stop-pressing impediment.


MP

[heavy]

If I have time, I'll post another Dice Doctor betting strategy or two this evening. Interesting thread. Thanks to everyone for posting.

[Michael]

I like his Mrs dice play for the darkside.Make a don't pass bet,if the point is 6 or 8 don't make another bet.If the point is 5 or 9 bet 1 don't come, 4 or 10 point bet 2 dc's.Only one loss per shooter and parley all don't pass winners on the come out.Play with or without odds,he liked odds.

[Dylanfreake]

Yeah, hehe, I play gutless according to the Dice Doctor.

My money management comes from the Dice Doctor. Just a colorful character--love all the stories.