How do you keep dealers interested?

[dork]

In a different thread, AlohaJohnny posted:

It's also a great way to get the dealers into the game!

I didn't wanna distract from my own thread (hijack myself), so I copied his reply here so I can post my questions and thoughts on the subject--

AJ (and any other readers), how do you keep the dealers "interested"? Do you bet 1-1-1 every time for the dealers? or just when you roll? This question isn't so much about the amount of your wager as it is the method... I used to bet the Hardways 2-way piggybacked, but it's such a long odds prop with RR's I usually only play for them when I roll; and that, 'privately'. I've found that skimming winnings instead of betting props pays actual money better--the old bird in the hand, as it were... the dealers seem to appreciate much more that my 'expenditures' are actually netting them real tips.

I'll pay them $10 for every $35 I win on the AT and AS, and ~20% when the ALL comes home. When the World bet pays, I'll skim $10 off each winner there, too. It's a "lot" of money, but they know me enough now to know it'll come when I win so I don't have to 'declare' bets for them. If I'm quitting a loser, I always save 5-10% of my buy-in for them at the end. It keeps'm happy, and they watch out for me... accepting my late call bets, reminding me of odds or Lays I (might usually) take but 'forgot'. They'll hold up the 'dice out' for me when they see I've 'missed' bet. A couple times, they've blocked for me--refusing to book bets if they're in the 'wrong' area of the DP/PL. I never get heat for short rolls unless the actual Pit Boss is hovering; most of the time, they'll just ignore my short rolls completely, even at a table with other players. (They gave one poor guy who objected, the excuse--"he's a regular".) On rare occasions, I'll end up a real ugly loser, and only tip $25 or so as I leave. They don't seem to mind at all, or they're hiding it real well.

[Mad Professor]

Hi Dork,

Have you ever considered using The Wizard's "Bonus Round" toking-method to keep the dealers 'extremely' interested in the game?

It is highly effective, and goes hand in hand with my "toke-branding" approach.



MP

[luxlogs]

Never tip if you lose, Never.

[dork]

Dork. You're over tipping. Any edge you may be gaining via DI, you're giving up to the dealers. ...

I've *always* felt that way; it's like I almost have them conditioned now to the 'scale' of my tips. But after all the reading I've done, I still don't have a handle on what is fiscally responsible--for myself. There've been instances when I've left more in tips than my losses--I used to 2-way Hardway piggyback every time I held the dice. I don't do that anymore--now I just cut out some of the profits for them. But as my example above cites, it is a lot, as a percentage, I think.

Irish, when/how/amount do you toke? I'd like to reduce it to a reasonable number/occurrence; it's always felt like I've done just barely okay because I've left too much behind in tips. At the same time, getting them to block for me, no-heat my short rolls, accept my late call bets, and once, they even paid PL odds that I'd forgotten to place on the table (but I said the chips in my hand were intended there). It's not like they've been feigning service.

I've never played with a 'crew', just loudmouths, high-rollers, and true riff-raff. In actuality, my tipping seems to be 'middling' compared to the rest. I certainly don't PL or prop bet regularly during my play like the high-rollers, even in the "old days". But I really would like to figure out how other savvy players (like ya'll) toke.

[dork]

Hi Dork,

Have you ever considered using The Wizard's "Bonus Round" toking-method to keep the dealers 'extremely' interested in the game?

It is highly effective, and goes hand in hand with my "toke-branding" approach.



MP

I've Googled and I searched this forum for 'author: W/wizard'--'keyword: bonus round toke/toking; tip/tipping'. I've even tried a search of all of Wizard's posts for the words 'bonus round toke'... No joy.

I "tap and brand" as you've taught us. Would you expound on the 'bonus round toke'? You've mentioned it twice (once back in January; I noted it then, too, aside from this recent search), but we've never seen "Wizard" reply. Do you have the topic indexed somewhere convenient for yourself?

Thank you.

[Sal Vegas]

My usual method is I will usually announce to the dealer that the win from the extra buck riding on my PL bet will be for the crew. To help get them in the game, I will tell them they can take it for the toke box OR use it to spread out on other bets. I piggyback or control all my dealer bets. When things are rolling well, will also put out some dollars for the ATS feature or put out player controlled bets on 6 & 8 but let dealer decide what to do with win (most press then pull, repeat). Some are bored senseless and appreciate having a buck or two to play and build their own wins.
I am a big fan of being a decent George and working with the crew. If I have a good experience, I share that with pit supervision or via emails or social media. An old fashioned letter also goes a long way too. Nice to be acknowledged and thanked upon next visit. Sharing the love... As others have said, good Karma.

[heavy]

My old standard it to toke early and often (every 20 minutes at stick change) but my tip is a $1 bet - usually piggybacked on one of my own bets. Lately I've done a few "milestone" tokes. For example, "If I get my six or eight pressed up to $90 - when you cut out the payment it's one black for me and one red in the box." Yeah, that's over-tipping. But most of the time I get to $42 each on the six and eight and just sit there so it's academic.

[Bankerdude80]

I used to be overly generous in the tip category until I read the forum and got some ideas on how others tipped. I will occasionally toss in
the 2-way hardway player control for $2 or $4 to maintain the energy of the table. I noticed a lot of bets made for the dealers don't hit and
the house ends up collecting it. I now provide a $10 dealer hand-in if I parlay my $1 hard six or eight and it hits (I collect $90 less the $10).
I will toss in a 2-way hardway only if I have been tossing hardways. I usually tip them when I am tossing, rarely when someone else is.
If the session hand is hot, I increase my tips to the dealers by place betting the six or eight for them, player control. I'll press it up for them if things
go well. If I manage to get my horn bets pressed up and they hit, I will also provide a dealer hand-in. I just started using the passline method Irish
uses that he showed us at the last GAC seminar. I have to admit, my mood and the mood of the dealers affects how I tip. It's something I might have
to work on. Before I leave a table with a win, I will drop a percentage of my take (about 2-3%). When its all said and done, the dealers are happy
that I stopped by. By handing in my tips, I'd know my money is going to the dealers and not the house.

[Mad Professor]

Hi Dork,

It turns out that the Wizard's "Bonus Round" dealer-toking discussion took place over on his WIZARD Checks In blog on the Dice Institute message-board.

Let me try to summarize it:

~He often uses a 4-step regression on his Place 6-&-8 bets when he is shooting.

~When he works his way through that regression; then he starts his "Bonus Round" dealer-toking method.

Here is a cut-and-paste from one of the many times he was discussing it over there:

"Recently during a few successive early morning sessions, I got the crews involved in a big way. They quickly understood the play of doing the 120/90/60/30 regression.

I did not even have to ask for the regression once they got it a few times. It’s really simple and the crew members were explaining it to their replacements even before I had to.

The tipping format starts with a two way $5/$2 Fire Bet. Then every time I achieved 4 hits and had won at the fully regressed $30/30 level ($350 in the rack profit point) I would tell the crew that it was now time for the BONUS ROUND! I’d take $22 of my winnings and set up $22 inside. ALL these bets were for the dealers – except that “I” control the bets. So I would then be trying to hammer out some more inside numbers – each one a win for the crew. The bets stayed up, were not pressed, winning every time until the seven showed.

In this way, the crew was always rooting for me to make my four hits – triggering “The Bonus Round” - then they were REALLY routing for me as I was thumping out money for them.

I did not do it this way all the time – but have to admit once I was up over $2500 I did become more generous in my tips. Keep in mind the majority (certainly not all) of this recent play was at a smoke-free government run location that is about a loss tolerant as they come. The remainder of the play was across the border in the SMOKE ZONE!

Time will tell how it goes in the future in say Vegas or AC. Needless to say I’ll keep you guys posted. But that “bonus round” tipping routine works wonders and to be honest…it’s just plain FUN!"


MP

[luxlogs]

Really Irish, toke when your losing, that's like tipping when the food is bad.

[London Shooter]

I always tip when I have lost too at the end of my session. It is only the change so just a couple of quid. I'll do the same when I win though a big win will give the dealers some extra money. During the the game I may do the odd £1 ATS or £1/2 hardways, normally just when I am shooting.

Dork, I agree with what others are saying - it sounds like you are really over tipping. $10 on any $35 payout ATS you hit and up to 10% of your buy-in when you leave? Seriously? You must really have to be shooting well to ever get in profit giving that much away to the crew.

[Drab]

I usually add $1 PL or hardway as soon as I buy in, and $1 to PL when I'm shooting. If I leave after playing only a short time, I add them to the hard way exit play.

[rhythm roller]

Yup, I tip win or lose. I prefer to tip as I go along so don't always know if it will be a losing or winning session in the end. I try to play on a lightly populated table so I only tend to tip when I am tossing the dice. I will put a dollar on top of my PassLine bet and one beside it on the line for the dealer. As passes are made I replace the dealers PassLine bet with the one I have bet on top of my PassLine bet. Basically, once I have set up the two dollars initially then the casino wins pay for all of the other tip money for the dealers. If I start to make multiple passes then I will add a dollar or two in odds behind the dealers bet and I will increase my PassLine bet to cover the odds for the dealer. Another good thing about doing it this way is that your own PassLine is bigger so you can also increase your own odds bet if you have already maxed it out. This works well for me.

Luxlogs, if the service has been good then I leave a tip even if the food has left a bad taste in my mouth. I look at Craps tipping the same way. If the crew takes care of me then they get tips no matter what my outcome. For me just one of the costs of playing the game. Also feel the same about the cocktail waitress/waiter.

[luxlogs]

Suckers

[Americraps]

I've observed that if a player has ever worked for tips in the past, then they are likely to be much more generous tippers than the player who has never worked for tips. This follows through to restaurant, and other tips.

[luxlogs]

First Thing, I do tip, but only when it's warrented, not because I think I have too or worry about what people will think of me.

Second Thing, I have worked for tips, then I got a better job in the same joint. Busboy, Cook then Mgr and Never looked back. That's the way The American Dream used to be before "Spread The Wealth" became the Law of the Land. Before that it was Up and Onward, not sideways in a dead end job hustling tips. I have had some of the same dealers in Joliet for 20+ years, never made it to Box let alone Pit Boss.

Wonder Why, not because they don't know the game, not because they weren't offered the job at one point, probably because they didn't want the extra responsibility that comes with the job. And that my friends is the state of the American Workforce today. Believe me I know, I have hired and fired more than my share of useless eaters. I never thought I was very smart until I hired employees, then I became smart by default.

If the dealer can help your game, then by all means tip, if they just stand there going thru the motions paying more attention to the hot chick than your bets, Please don't reward their bad behavior.

[dork]

... Dork, I agree with what others are saying - it sounds like you are really over tipping. $10 on any $35 payout ATS you hit and up to 10% of your buy-in when you leave? Seriously? You must really have to be shooting well to ever get in profit giving that much away to the crew.

Welllll, I literally "can't fight the urge"--I was trying MP's (new-to-me) betting scheme on the Horn numbers, and it paid well enough to support my terrible hands, so I tipped 'em $20 off my $2 All Small (when I thought I'd never make enough to tip'em at all). But a color-up showed a miscalculation, so I skimmed another $44 off a $319 profit for a tip. (Read about that in my other thread [World on the CO])..

"Sucker"; that's what I've been called here... I don't give a shipt. I've worked in a service industry too, and when the dealers 'take care' of me as much as these guys do, I make sure to toke for both their service and my own distinction. They know me in a crowd of 'high-rollers', and the accompanying service defies the 'high-rollers' envy. As I said, they'll slow the game to make sure I'm all bets down (sometimes I forget something--like the ATS, or a Hard 4/10 on the CO), I get almost no short-roll heat (even at a casino that's notorious on this forum for it--it's like "okay, we've told him, now let him throw and ignore the dice"), to the two times I asked to have a target area 'opened up' and the dealer on that side would instruct the players to steer their bets clear (Yowza! how's that for astounding!?). I'll bet all my over-tipping that hasn't happened to these guys who don't tip when they lose because of "resentment".

But I'm cheep, too, though the 'need' rarely arises... Earlier this morning, I left a whole $7 tip for my session's play. I was only there 35 minutes, but the dealer on my side was so aggravating because of his "inexperience" that he even ticked off the other staff members. The mood was so foul because this dealer couldn't keep up with my bets that I quit; I had no qualms at all about skimming the color-up for the tip with a cheap and stingy $7. (I'm not hard-nosed here; he's been there since August, and "parlay the 9 to $24" [from $10] confused him. "Press the 6 (from $24) to $42" caused Havoc... we stopped the game for 2 minutes on that one. The dealers were exasperated; this guy belongs on the card tables or servicing slot winners.)

But I'm tryin'... I've known for a LONG time my tipping is too heavy. But I see the shipt and the cheapskates they have to put up with and it's hard not to remember my own days havin' to bite my tongue. (with my short and violent temper, it was always tough to keep quiet; I always remember that)

[luxlogs]

I'm sorry Dork, that "Sucker" remark was not directed directly at you. It was for everybody. Please forgive me.

[luxlogs]

It does not require for one to be a Gracious Loser to become an even bigger Loser by tipping upon exiting the game. All that is required is to not make an A$$ of yourself at the table. This goes whether you are Winning or Losing,Drunk or Sober. If I have a Good Gambling Experience I will most certainly tip. However if I have a Bad Gambling Experience I will keep my money. Example 1, Dealer acts like I am bothering him because take my bets down after only 1 hit. Example 2, Dealer is more interested in the Football Game then Dealing my Game. I could go on and on but you get my point. I have some Favorite Dealers who I take care of, and others I stay away from. I even coined my own personal dealer bet and phrase for when I make it. Those of you who have played with me probably know it as well as how well it goes over, especially when one of the Veteran Dealers has to explain it to the new guy on stick. Oh Yea, Losing is also a Bad Gambling Experience. I'm sorry but unless your a Trust Fund Baby Losing Sucks.

[Americraps]

The BEST way to keep the dealers interested, is when the dice go off the table, show them a little skin.
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