Those Troublesome Free Bets and Match Play

[heavy]

Thought I'd toss out a couple of more "puzzlers" for you. Here's the premise.

1. As a regular casino patron your play is rewarded with two $100 Free Play coupons per month. One has to be played in the first 15 days of the month. The other has to be played in the second 15 days of the money (assuming a 30 day month). You cannot split the coupon into multiple bets. However, you can play it anywhere on the table. That includes prop action, line bets, Field bets, Free Odds, etc. Where would you play your $100 coupons?


2. Same question as above, but you get two $100 Match Play coupons per month. Again, you can play your total wager on any bet. However, you cannot split it into smaller denominations. Your total wager will be $100 plus the $100 coupon. Where would you place your bet? Same as in the first scenario - or somewhere else.


I'll entertain a few answers and see where this goes.

[Dylanfreake]

#1) DP

#2) DP

[Roller123]

I would place it as odds on my point if I was good at hitting that number. Otherwise I'd wait until I set a point I tossed regularly. Definitily don't use it on a one roll and down number. I played next to a guy at a $5 table who put $90 on the passline and no odds. I couldn't figure out why he didn't put $5 on the passline and use the rest as odds? My only thought was that he wanted to make money off of the comeout 7's and 11's. He never shot and the 7, 11, 2, and 12 were all coming at random intervals but the table was warm and there were a lot of passes being made.

Roller

[SHOOTITALL]

Ya know, I was at ST a couple of years ago and put my match play on the don't and the box said I could not play it on the don't.
So, I moved it to the PL, said that is for the boys and walked away. Really turned me off on ST. sia

[Smiles3usa]

Here in the Northeast (Mohegan Sun) those free bets do come regularly each month. Unfortunately, for craps play, the free bet can only be made on the pass line. Starting late in 2011, players are no longer allowed to play odds (always 5x's) on the free bet. So there's really no choice. The free bet is played on the pass line. The question is, do you wait for your roll or do you just play it when starting the game. My last few free bet coupons have been for $200 and $250. Deciding whether to play or wait is quite the decision. It seems whichever I pick, I pick wrong...oh well...such is the life of a one bet.

[al_falcons]

At the Taj in Atlantic city the $50 Match Play that I received could be played on Red or Odd in Roulette, they wouldn't let me play black.

[al_falcons]

As far as the smartest play, that would be passline odds if you or another shooter could roll the point more than average, like Roller said above.

[soxfan]

Those stipulations as to where you can bet match play coupons are ridiculous, hey hey!

[DeadCat]

At the Taj in Atlantic city the $50 Match Play that I received could be played on Red or Odd in Roulette, they wouldn't let me play black.

That's probably to prevent opposite-sides match play betting by a single player or a 2 player "team."


-DC

[heavy]

Yep, DC nailed that one on the head. I used to get anywhere from $100 - $250 in free bets at NYNY, and they'd let you play it anywhere on the table - including the Free Odds. I usually tried to set the 4 or 10 as the point and use it as odds there.

We had a similar discussion on Wong's Green Chip forum several years ago. I think the original question was "Where is the best place to play a $100 Free Bet coupon at craps when the coupon can be used on any bet?" The answer - which came from a bunch of math guys, by the way, surprised me. And none of you has nailed it yet. I'll give a few more people an opportunity to fluff this one out. SOMEBODY must remember our previous discussions on this.

[wild child]

Match Play seems casino specific.

Some casinos direct the player to the cashier for issuance othes permit an exchange at the table.

Many insist in not breaking larger than $20 Match Play into smaller value bets like $5 as that gives the player too many small bets as opposed to one larger match play bet.

Promotional Chips are an adventure and the individual house sets the rules.
One casaino routinely sends couponds redeemable for $75 / each week and hands off 3 $25 promo chips from the cashier...............

A rival casino hands off $225 each week in the monthly mail out and the cashier hands $5 promo chips as per my request.........

My action in both joints is about the same.

All of the casinos in that market only permit the Match Play or Promo Chips to be played on flat bets.( Box Number, Pass Line, Don't Pass Line )
The promo Chips pay at face value. A $5 Promo Chip pays one RED CHIP per $5 Promo Chip
Note the Promo Chips are collored different than regular HOUSE CHIPS.

My feeling is the Promo Chips are a better deal as they may be played with or without PLAYER MONEY involved. Also the player may select the bet size in increments of choice.

Since PROMO CHIPS are rerely time limited,the player may save them back several weeks or months and bank roll a substancial " BUY IN " with PROMO CHIPS. At even monet payouts say $1,000 or $2,000 in PROMO CHIPS may streach a long way into a player's future CASINO VISITS. Should the player win 50% of his PROMO CHIP BETS, that could go a long way in underwritting future play.

MATCH PLAY is not so much the good deal offered by PROMO CHIPS.

The MATCH PLAY couponds are just that. The PLAYER must risk PLAYER's MONEY in order to use the MATCH PLAY COUPON . Such may bring the PLAYER to risk a greater amount if his/her $$$$$
than the PLAYER may feel comfortable placing at risk.

Fifty Percent of a MATCH PLAY BET is PLAYER'S MONEY. True the casino is giving the player a FIFTY PERCENT DISCOUNT on the MATCH PLAY BET. The HOEWVER FACTOR may be the PLAYER may be forced to place an amount greater than said player's COMFORT ZONE or regular RISK LEVEL.

Should the MATCH PLAY BET win GREAT. BONUS BUCK$ abound.

Should the MATCH PLAY BET LOSE.....................

W C

[DeadCat]

...... I think the original question was "Where is the best place to play a $100 Free Bet coupon at craps when the coupon can be used on any bet?" The answer - which came from a bunch of math guys, by the way, surprised me. And none of you has nailed it yet. I'll give a few more people an opportunity to fluff this one out. SOMEBODY must remember our previous discussions on this.

That can be a tricky question. For most of the Wong crowd, the ones I know anyway, $100 is pocket change. Ironic, as they are also the same guys who bring their own water to the BJ table.

For others among us $100 is enough money to really not want to risk it and to hedge it off on the PL/DP to "cash it in" as close to the just under $50 it is "really" worth. I'm sure the answer to "best" is subjective.

I don't remember the previous discussions but I would not be surprised if some of those guys just said something like; "It's a free roll. Put it wherever it can make the most money."

It might be more telling if you asked them what would be best if it were a $100,000 free bet.


-DC

[heavy]

Yeah, you're right on target, DC. The answer those guys gave most often - bet it straight up on the 12 craps. Or aces if you prefer, but a $100 Midnight was the bet of choice. They're reasoning was that you'd win that bet one time in thirty six attempts, kicking off $2900. If you bet it on any even money bet then you'd win half the time over the long run - or around $1800. There may be better performing bets - but what the heck. It's something to think about. Of course, it's all academic since it seems like the casinos have all tweaked their free play to the point that it's tough to make a buck off it.

By the way, I recall one time years ago where I set aside one day in Vegas strictly to play my free play and match play up and down the strip. I carefully organized all of my coupons in casino order, started down at MGM Grand and worked my way north. I had close to $300 in free play and match play - all for even money bets - Pass Line or Don't Pass. There were around a dozen different casinos on my list. How many of those bets to you think I won that day?

Zip. Nada. Not a damn one. Statistically I should have one HALF of those bets. But I lost both my free play AND my match play, which means I actually went in the hole for the exercise. That was the last time I wasted a day chasing coupons in Vegas. Now, if I happen to be in a casino I have free play or match play then I'll certainly take advantage of it (or try to). But I don't go out of my way chasing that action. My time is worth more to me than that.

[Dylanfreake]

Roadhouse in Tunica from time to time sends me coupons $10 in free play promotions . Sometimes when I go to the cage they give me a paper coupon to use at the table which has an expiration date on it , but sometimes they give me promo chips that do not expire. My goal is to accumulate a session stake worth of chips. So far I have $80 in chips---I need around $315.

[heavy]

MGM has used the promo chip approach in the past. I've even had some cage gals ask if I wanted my $100 promo in one black chip or four green. Most of the time, though, they don't ask. They just give you the black chip and wish you luck.

[Mad Professor]

The old Casino du Hull (currently Casino du Lac-Leamy) across the river from Ottawa; used to do a two-day (mid-week) quarter-yearly match-play promo for its high-end VIP players where they'd match your average buy-in (calculated over the previous quarter) with non-negotiable $25 match-play tokens.

You first had to go to the cage and convert your date-specific coupon where they would then give you those non-negotiable chips along with a different coupon that you had to take to the table with you where you would do your actual buy-in (which had to be at least as large as the amount of m-p's that you had just received). It wasn't as complicated as I'm probably making it sound with this explanation.

Initially you could use them anywhere on the layout (except for Odds); but they too narrowed their use after the second or third go-round with this promo. To get maximum bang for the trip, I would schedule things so that I would do one match-play buy-in-matching redemption before midnight (to qualify for the first day of the two-day promo, and then do another one after midnight to snag day-two's m-p booty).

One of their stupid rules of that promo, was that once you started playing your set of m-p's; you couldn't leave the first table with them to use at a different game (you had to play all of them through at the table where you did your initial buy-in), otherwise they'd render them void (like a roulette chip).

That promo went the way of the dinosaur when they changed casino-management companies, and changed the name of the joint. It was a VERY profitable advantage-play gambit while it lasted though.


BTW, that store is home to three (3) of the sweetest 10-player stand-up tub-tables on this planet. Ask our friend, Amato, if you want to get his impressions of them.


MP

[heavy]

Hey, I've been to that joint. Man, this was waaaaaaay back when. My bride and I were on one of my famous road trips through upstate New York and on up around the Canadian side of the Great Lakes. We were bound for North Bay, where we did a little "camping" and fishing. Beautiful country. On the way home we spent the night in Watertown, New York. There was some sort of revival/prayer meeting going on in the hotel banquet room. Lots of born again folks dancing around the hotel lobby and sharing the Good News. Hey, I had hair back then. Those were the days!

[DeadCat]

Zip. Nada. Not a damn one. Statistically I should have one HALF of those bets. But I lost both my free play AND my match play, which means I actually went in the hole for the exercise. That was the last time I wasted a day chasing coupons in Vegas. Now, if I happen to be in a casino I have free play or match play then I'll certainly take advantage of it (or try to). But I don't go out of my way chasing that action. My time is worth more to me than that.

Been there, done that. It seems like everyone loses more often than they win with match plays. Once while standing in line at a players club a stranger me handed a small fistful of $5 match plays and said to me; "Those things are bad luck for me. I always lose them. Here, you try".

If they are even money only, now I just bet them DP and hedge with a PL and if it is larger, a 12 so that I either break even or win the extra. In the long term it is just the same as theoretical I just don't waste my time and my money.

A while back on the old Dicesetter site, MP wrote a nice little series on the day-to-day life of a coupon/match play subsistence gambler in Las Vegas. I guess there are worse ways to scratch out a living.


-DC

[Mad Professor]

Here are the links to those ancient dust-covered Match-Play articles of mine that Deadcat referred to above:

The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 1


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 2


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 3


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 4


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 5


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 6


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 7


The Match-Play Coupon Circuit - Part 8



MP

[goodh2o1]

I go to the Four Winds Casino, in New Buffalo, MI. They restrict it to an even money bet, except in the field then they pay the 2 times for a 2 and 3 times for a 12. I just place it in the field.