a DEAD horse: DI betting Crapless craps or even playing it?

[dork]

My favorite dice sets on a reglur craps table is 1-5/1-5 on the CO (trying to fill craps numbers on the ATS and pay the Horn bet); then I switch to x6's. I sure seem to get a lot of non-paying craps repeaters.

I wonder if a true influencer has more of an advantage on a Crapless table (with the correct betting scheme) than a Craps table. The idea makes me drool, because it just seems so "yes". Are there any mathematicians out there who've done the calculations to compare?

There's a crapless table at the Biloxi Harrah's (the old 'Grand') that I wonder about...

but I don't know how to bet it. So far, my use of the MP $204 w/2x regression (on a crap table) seems to pay off just fine. I've war-gamed adding a $10 2-12 and a $15 3-11 to the "$204" for a crapless game (after the CO only) and maybe obviously, I need to hit 3 numbers to regress "profitably" at these levels--but I'm only spreading $74 Across (less the point) at the regression. The theoretically net profit on a minimum 3-roll PPPPSO hand is ~$50. 5 Winners needed to make up for a PSO... scary; but the frequency of craps and yo's from the x6's sure seem appealing.

The PL poses problems too... once the point is established, is 5x Odds enough to slant the vig on Extreme Outside points? It seems like I should be betting more than 5x on 2-3-11-12 Odds if I wanna kill the house vig.

I'd like to know what the true payoff odds are on 2-3-11-12 Place bets, and what the correct Place bets should be. I can't find a discussion about what a $5 Place Bet on the naturals pays for Crapless games. Instinctively it seems that I shouldn't be betting in $5 increments, which means that a $10 or $15 bet shouldn't be regressed to one single $5 unit.

(In scanning this forum I found that there used to be a link to a primer on Crapless that Heavy must have authored, but it doesn't work now.) I apologize if this has all been discussed; I can't find threads discussing specific numbers; and I'm no mathematician by a long shot .

Thanks very much.

[shunkaha]

If you hit the outside numbers you are correct, crapless can be good. Typically if I am "dialed in" I will place money on the extremes WOTCO, then determine what to do from there,obviously hitting a CO 2 or 12 with money on it makes for a good experience, conversely money on those outsides can make you go broke. I've had experiences where I hit more outside numbers than inside and others in which I couldn't have begged, borrowed, or stolen my way into anything but inside number hits/wins. I included 2 links, one is Heavy on crapless, the other is simply discussing house edge on crapless.

http://www.dicesetter.com/heavy/heavy6cc.htm

http://stickman.casinocitytimes.com/art ... raps-33133

[London Shooter]

Dork, I was thinking I needed a crapless table the other night when I had a hand from SO using crossed 6s that had a whole bunch of outside numbers.

I asked about Crapless last year and an article I linked to on the thread is no longer there - might be the same non working link you found. It was on one of MPs sites by the looks so maybe he can chime in and give a working link.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/app ... plesscraps

The above discusses the house edge and the passline is a whopping 5.382% and as the wizard shows, you need 5x odds just to get down to around the 1% house edge.

Auto buy bets on extreme outside numbers (if they only charge commission on winnings) are much nicer with HA of 1.25% on 3 and 11 and 0.71% on 2 and 12.

[dwmm]

On Crapless tables, have had good results (sometimes) with continuous come bets with odds. This gets the house edge down, as true odds on the extremes. Not losing the come flat bets on 2,3,12 also helps if lucky enough to get repeating extremes.

[dork]

Thanks very much for the links, Guys! Those sites clear up all of questions I had on proper payoffs, betting strategies, etc.

[acpa]

Dork, dwmm,

Ive always been told that since you don't win on the 11 on the come out that pass line/come bets have higher HA than many of the place/buy bets where vig is paid on wins only.

Noah