Spin-Off Systems and Why We Play

[heavy]

Okay, that subject is a little misleading. This is actually a new thread I'm spinning off of another thread that I don't want to completely hijack. It has to do with what system or strategy you play at the table - and why you play it.

My contention is that whatever strategy we settle on as individuals will fulfill certain needs for us - financially, emotionally, etc. Think about this. Everything the casinos do is designed to accomplish one thing - separate you from your money. We know that when we walk in the door. We take on that challenge and in most cases hope to walk out a winner. Now, I am of the opinion that many people walk into the doors of the casino knowing they're going to walk out losers - but they want to mitigate those losses as much as possible. They do this through relatively smart play and by exploiting the comp system to one degree or another. But at the end of the day they will not do the things they need to do to win. They won't, for example, walk into the casino, play 20 minutes, get ahead $300, then quit and go home. Instead, they want to play six or eight hours. They hope they'll win but if they don't - they accept their loss as the cost of "entertainment." It is what it is.

So here we go. This is an audience participation thread. What strategy do you play? Why do you play it? What are your reasonable expectations for the play? Do you really expect to win or are you just trying to lose less overall?

Inquiring minds and all that. Let's hear it.

[Pacecar]

In downtown Vegas, there are several casinos next to each other. So I set a modest win limit for a session. When that win limit is reached, I continue playing for more profit until the first sign that the table is no longer in "synch" with my mode of play. Then I quit that table (with profit at or above my win goal) and move somewhere else to play more craps.

[Bones]

They won't, for example, walk into the casino, play 20 minutes, get ahead $300, then quit and go home. Instead, they want to play six or eight hours. They hope they'll win but if they don't - they accept their loss as the cost of "entertainment." It is what it is.

I agree, it is what it is. I am fortunate enough to live nearby the Casino to accomplish this. It is not a popular thing to do and as a result I usually shoot as a lone wolf and am under zero pressure to stay. My loss limit is a measly $200 and while I don't have a set win goal I will leave after one good roll, maybe two mediocre rolls but I don't have to be ahead very much. If i initially slip down the toilet I might leave if I get back to even,almost even or even if I make some headway and cut my losses.

There are times when a fellow DI comes from out of town and I just plan on staying longer than normal, but I find it incredibly difficult not to start playing the don'ts on the Randies or jumping in on a cfer's hot roll, just in time to get whacked.

Imho, you are on or you are not. There are times when the dice look good but lady luck is just pissed off and it's not going well. Other times even if the dice slip out of your hands you get the "Pay the Line". I think we have all tossed some really beautiful dice and the devil shows and u think Huh? How could that happen?


However, for many years I would have to travel great distances to the casino and honestly you just stay at the tables way to long. Several years ago I arrived at Tunica and instantly found myself up $300. I colored in, went to my room and , crap, it's 6pm , what the heck am i going to do. So I went back down to the table gave back the $300 plus another $500.

Bones

[awyborny]

I used to be one of those people who was just out to limit the losses while playing. I started going to casinos with my mother who could some how win on slots after playing for hours...and hours...and more hours with me standing behind her praying she would win the jackpot or just lose. I learned how to play craps as a way to limit my losses while also being able to play for awhile.

As I matured as a player and realized that I absolutely hate losing I started doing research. I tried my hand at dice control...started doing well at home but at the casino suffered from shaking hands. I changed from that to smart money management and some strategies that I like. Now I expect to win when I go to play and I will leave with a win even if it means walking out with $15($5 more then the cost of gas to the casino). I keep a chart up on a white board at home that has my record vs. various local casinos. Knowing I want to put another notch in my win and not in the casino's column keeps me focused on getting out of there with something.

To win I employ strict money management. I really like to have a "lock up" portion of my chips in the back rack as the Dice Doctor has described in his books. I keep track of wins and losses of each bet and I have a strict number of qualified shooters that I bet on. Yes I qualify shooters. In testing using my rolling at home and on random number generator(www.random.org) qualifying leads to bigger wins and less loss then non qualifying as far as my testing has gone. I qualify based on what the Dice Doctor describes and even though I can't find a sure fit reason why it works it has for me so far. (By the way I'm obsessed with thoroughly testing anything before trying it at the casino. I never play a system or a method unless I'm comfortable and familiar with the results it will give me. )

I have a pass and don't pass strategy and I play either one just depending on the night and how I feel. If I'm having a serious night and I just want to make my money and go I'll play the don't. If I'm feeling rebelious and I want to stick it to the world I also play the don't. However, and this is most of the time, If I'm up for some fun I play the pass. I progress modestly as I win and regress as soon as I hit a loss. I incorporate a little from here and a little from there into what I like to play. I can't say I follow anyone's set strategy but there are little things I like from several books that I've read that I put together and fair very well under my simulations at home and at the casino.

My big thing that I do is when I start getting up in money I always color up for higher chips. For example if I'm betting at $5 base units as soon as I've won $50 or so I'll color up for a couple green chips and put them in my pocket. I tip the dealers well so their annoyance with my frequent color ups doesn't last too long. This works for me as I don't want to ever be that person digging in their pocket for money. If my play chips are gone I walk to the cashier and dig through my pockets for all the chips I can find in there. This keeps temptation away for me to chase losses or try to snag bigger wins(which is more tempting for me then chasing losses).

If I win quickly and I'm at the casino with my mother who will no doubt be playing slots for hours upon hours I will go over to Blackjack and play, earn some comps and then go sit at the restaurant or cafe for awhile and enjoy some food or coffee. I use a modest progression there and sometimes the Ace/Five count. It doesn't give me an advantage over an 8 deck game but it keeps things pretty even and I have yet to lose money playing with that...just breaking even and some small wins at $5 tables.

To wrap up my book here the big thing is money management. Doing something to keep yourself from being tempted to play longer then needed is key. Whether it's stuffing chips in your pocket...or other more advanced methods I think any system can be played well and wins happening on a regular basis. The house advantage is not so hard to avoid in the short run...it's not getting out of the house that beats us.

[acpa]

Lot of sense in what you say!

noah

[Dylanfreake]

awyb, good post. Professor H used that random number site.

[heavy]

Years ago I developed a strategy based loosely on Big Al's Army March. I call it the Squeeze Play or the Outside In progression. I usually start out this play with $44 inside. If I get a hit on the nine (pays $14) I take down the $10 bet on the nine and add it to the payoff, then use that to press the eight to $36. I do the same thing when the five rolls - taking it down and pressing the bet and payoff to the six. Once I have $36 each on the six and eight I'll press to $48 and lock up $30 on the first hit. On the second hit (pays $56) I replace the $10 five or nine - depending on whether the six or eight rolled, and lock up $46. That gives me $76 in the rack and a $32 profit locked up. From here I same bet the six and eight. But if the five or nine roll I repeat the inside press - pressing the six or eight by another $24. Then we're off to the races.

[SteveO]

My favorite strategy has always been sort of opposite of Heavy's Heat Seeker. Kind of an Iceberg Seeker. One unit on the don't pass line, let it go to a number, then one unit on the don't come. Follow an up one unit as you lose and down one unit as you win on both bets. It works well on cold, cool and neutral tables.

[heavy]

I like that one, Steve. Now you've got me thinking outside the box.