"Dicer's Two Hit and Down Progression"

[drbobsd]

Just an update here. I am 7 wins out of 11 trys with a small positive net, using the 3 hit strategy with Dicers progression on all shooters. On warm tables, you make a killing, on cold tables, you get destroyed quickly. My adjustment is to play this system on other DIs, and do something else on the knuckle draggers. I'll be trying out a friends don't system tonight if its a cold table.

I may be all wet. How about on knuckle draggers using Big Al's army march?

A $5 or $10 initial investment with max bet of $11 will give you a chance if one of them goes on a tear with the dice. You could take same bet any time along the way or just take down your bet if the urge hits you.

I get more looks from the crew when I play dark side as I'm not playing it often. Usually just don't bet on RR's.

I bet on myself and few others at tables that seem to be doing what I'm trying to do.

[ComeOut7]

This is for iron stomach shooters....The comeout roll sevens are like candy.....Yes if the rolls work out $$$$$$ rains down. In my case I shoot for the seven and use the natural wins to place my bets....Then I will use an iron cross to cover the board...Simple and pays with little risk....Good Luck

[dwmm]

Too many PSO's destroy regression play, I would rather start out with minimal risk and proceed upward if the roll continues.
Having to get two hits on every shooter is impossible when the table goes bad.

[$5Bill]

I don't play Dicer's strategy on anyone except myself or maybe a DI that I know real well. I would not play this strategy on the randies.

$5Bill

[freak]

Too many PSO's destroy regression play, I would rather start out with minimal risk and proceed upward if the roll continues.
Having to get two hits on every shooter is impossible when the table goes bad.

That's true. With any strategy there is a condition that causes a win and a condition that causes a loss. Each play has strengths and weaknesses. DOn't excells on a cold table. A choppy table can kill the don't and do player alike. There are a LOT of strategies that will work well on a 20+ roll hand. Small and grow works. The regression play works even better since you won more on the first few rolls. What's unique about the regression play is that you can eek a win out of a table that only offers short hands. And or you can tread water a long time on a choppy table waiting for the long hand to show. We used to play small and grow. It feels less risky because we were never in a position to take a big hit off of one roll of the dice. But we usually ended up losing. We just lost slowly. We'd wait one roll after the point. Shooter rolls a 6 so we place 6&8. Shooter rolls 5, 9, 11, 7out. We lost $24. Next shooter goes PSO and we lose nothing and think we are smart to miss the PSO. Next three shooters do fair and we win two placed bets on each. That means we won a whopping total of $12 because we won $28 on each hand and lost $24 on each hand. Then a nice 19 hand and we get 5 hits on our placed bets but only win $36 'cause we left $34 on the table. (The 6&8 and the 5 that was hitting a lot early so we placed it with winnings but never got a hit). Then a PPPSO and we lose $24. Lather rinse repeat. The table isn't terrible but somehow we're losing. We used to see this all the time. The OPPORTUNITY to win was there but we weren't winning. Since switching to a regression play we've been winning more and having more fun. We've also seen more volatility which took time to learn to stomach. And we've had a few bad losses. But what we NEVER do anymore is miss the good roll. When the good roll comes we're on it from the start.

[London Shooter]

Freak's point is so true. In Biloxi I seemed to have so many fair hands but I just wasn't making money on them really unless I hit a portion of the ATS due to the way I was betting them - small and timid. At one session on a hot table I made $5 overall due to the way I was betting. Sure, I would never lose much but I would never win much either unless a really long roll came or I hit a bonus payment. All the charting of various shooters just re-enforced that the vast majority of hands are short, even amongst DIs. But if you can get a couple of inside numbers in a short hand you can survive very well.

I just need to still work out what initial level of stake is comfortable for me for 3 PSO or PPSO type hands and with it embrace that greater volatility will bring greater losses at times but much better upswings at others.

[freak]

I just need to still work out what initial level of stake is comfortable for me for 3 PSO or PPSO type hands and with it embrace that greater volatility will bring greater losses at times but much better upswings at others.

Yup. That's key. We altered our play this past weekend because we learned that although $88 inside feels great when we get our two hits, we just can't stomach that level of play with our current bankroll. We can afford $44 but not $88 or even $66. I'll talk about the new play in detail in my next trip report.

[London Shooter]

"We can afford $44 but not $88 or even $66. I'll talk about the new play in detail in my next trip report."

OK, I look forward to it as I feel dipping my toe in at 44 initially is going to feel about right.

[slowdriver]

I like this strategy at least parts of it and you can end it when ever you want, i have not used it in a casino though im thinking it would have worked well on my last Biloxi trip..i have had some success using the mini Mp$204 across in a casino. I didn't have much of a plan at Biloxi and I'm n sure that i left money on the table.

Slowdriver,

my next casino trip July 1st Vegas

[$5Bill]

The only thing I didn't like about it was having it work on the Come-out-Roll. That's when I creamed myself when I started tossing 7's. Otherwise it isn't bad.

$5Bill

[Americraps]

I'm against any "and down" system. The more I play, the more I see the the value in the long hand. I'm convinced that without them, there's no winning at craps.

[SHOOTITALL]

Amr: I'm a bit slow in my old age, but how do you determine a long hand is in progress? My thinking on this is to pull the two hit bets and double down next hand on known shooters. If I am familiar with the shooter, I know his signature numbers plus what he is doing at this session. To me, this makes infinitely more sense. sia

[Americraps]

Hi SIA,
I know I'm going against most if not all the experts here, and I am probably absolutely chock full of sh$t, but I don't believe in regressions. They simply don't work for me. I've lost a lot of money using regressions. Not funny money, I'm talking about the real stuff. The kind that gets yuo wapped upside the head when you get home.

When I'm shooting, the full wack 7 seems to cost me more than the quick hitter regression hands make. And when the big one finally comes, using regression feels like I'm trying to swim with an anchor around my neck. So you choose between making a little on a long hand, or over pressing. Either choice is no good. By the time you get your bets pressed to anything meaningful, the hand is over or nearly so.

I believe regressions work for some. I've read Heavy's, Yours, Irish's, Mad Dogs, MPs, and others accounts of regression working at the tables. Everybody seems to love regressions. It just doesn't work for me.

I like RCs 20% pressure concept. I have tested it, proved it in practice, and believe it is the best way for me to win money at the craps table. At least when I'm shooting. I had a 51 roll hand yesterday that netted $13,275 profit. That pays for a lot of losers. Those kind of monsters don't show up very often for me, but they sure have impact when they do. Too bad I'm only $10K short of using it in the casino....

How do I know when a long hand is in progress? That's a good question, I've been reading the other thread with interest. I have no clue. I don't know when the shooter will 7 out. The only way to determine when a long hand is in progress is while it's happening, or after its over. $5Bill says he knows when he's having a long hand. After 20 rolls, I'd say it's a long hand. Can I determine in the first 5-10 rolls thats its going to be a long hand? I wish I could......

Signature numbers. I've read a lot about the concept. I'm sure somewhere out there, there are shooters (a lot better than me) who have signature numbers. I might have them within a hand, but I 'm not going to bet on it, unless its really obvious, and by then it's probably over. I don't know how a shooters last hand will affect his next hand, or if he was pounding the 8, will he do it again after standing and waiting a half an hour for the dice? Or will he pound the six? Or will he pound his fist on the table when he goes PSO? Who knows?

The one thing I can be sure of is that eventually a long hand will come if he's a decent shooter, and I'll make the decision to bet or not by watching his shot. When the big one comes, I'll get the money.

[bobbylee]

Picking up on the comment above from Freak:
I also never come totally down.
"the best bet on a randy is no bet".
Welll...., as Freak says and we agree from many live play sessions, there are going to be a double digit hand(s) from some of the chicken feeders and you can stand there in frustration or be Also getting come of that action.
Last week , the session was looming as a loss. The Randy put me well in the black after starting with the 6&8 total $12 exposure.

[Americraps]

I think the reason crapsters don't want to use EO is because there are frequent painful periods between big hands, and the BR requirements are so high. ($10K for the $10 come bettor.) I'm testing different hedge strategies to see if they can lessen the blow of downward variance to make EO a more friendly style to use.

You have to ask yourself-How come most casinos don't offer 100x odds? They are afraid of the big one for a reason.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.