Dark side strategies

[DarthNater]

I've been war-gaming the $50 lays each on the 4 & 10 with the $100 DP then laying max odds. Its actually played very impressively against random dice, though can be a bit volatile as on a longish roll you'ld have $1100 on the table; I'm thinking only one DC or perhaps none, less targets that way.

Anybody (Heavy, MP, ?) have any insights or experience with this strategy?

Happy New Years, D.N8r

[DarthNater]

I just finished a marathon rereading of Dave's System, nice restoration, guys, well done!

It got me thinking about my wargaming that play mentioned on the December 22nd post and the one just above. I think applying Dave's "two whacks & take down all your odds" might be worth a longer look as a limit on this play. By and far the killer on the 2 or three DCs was not the 6 or 8 hitting, it was the 4/10 hit when I tested it. I used $$$ as my metric, should have recorded the tosses for the sessions as well; regardless I'm thinking a hybrid with Dave's limits might be interesting. While the above has $300 odds lays; I like Dave's starting lay numbers a bit better. D.N8r

[advdel77]

over the years i have put more odds on the 4 & 10. if the point or DC was 6&8 i would even make place bets to hedge. everytime i plan on using Dave's system i chicken out when the 6&8 come up. there dont players on this site that do not lay odds against 4&10.i think for darkside play, DYLANFREAKE has it correct. one loss per shooter. 7 or 11 on the come out roll, done with that shooter. it takes discipline to play his way but does eliminate hot shooter from beating you. i think for the amounts you are playing for stated in your post this would not be a bad way to play.advdel77

[mssthis1]

I play the DP similar to Dylanfreake but I go 2 losses per shooter. The last two times I've played I've watched other don't bettors crash and burn by getting stubborn when that one person every two hours or so has a streak of several pass line winners on an otherwise cold table.

I bet $5.00 with 2x odds the first bet. If that gets knocked off I bet $5.00 with enough odds to recoup the first loss. If that gets knocked off I wait. I count the 7/11 as a separate 2 bets since $10.00 is my max loss.

[advdel77]

i read a post where 40% of shooters will make 1st point, 16% 2nd point, 7% 3rd point, and down from there. seems like you could keep betting against shooter and win. i use to play a system where i doey-dont on come out and layed odds against, and continued increasing odds as i lost. once a shooter hit 4 points total loss would be $240 . you then either walk away or start over. its a grind but usually win a little but a lot of time at the table. not a bad way to play with small bankroll.advdel77

[heavy]

How goes the Dark Side? Any new twists on your plays? I'm giving serious thought to playing $100 DC after the point is set, then placing $96 across including. Leave the six and eight up. Take down every other number if it hits. Yeah, there's some pucker power at play with that $100 DC "come out." Watch out for PSO's or second roll Yo's.

[220Inside]

I ran into a guy in Tahoe that was doing something similar, although he was awful at trying to implement it as he didn't have a handle at all on the betting part.

He played PL + odds. After point set, $75 DC. After DC traveled, bet across, no including PL and DC point. But he didn't take down any numbers after they hit. The play intrigued me once I caught on to what he was doing. I like your idea better of bypassing PL and just placing across.

[220Inside]

Of course the other danger of this play besides the PSO or yo, is bullfrogging the DC point and then SO. If the DC falls, what do you do with the place bets that are still up?

[Moe Bettor]

Ah, the chop house bet. A random shooter on a cold table. Maybe a $7 yo on that big DC bet? Ok..if you're going $96 across which means you are going to have either $18 or $15 against $100, right? So let's say the DC lands on the 9. So the 9 hits, you lose $100 fast and make $21? You basically need two lucky breaks on this play. First one is the DC moving nicely to a number. Then we cannot hit that number. I think I've read you right on this..? If you just play the DC for $19, and it goes to 9, you can place bet the 9 for $15. You win either way. All day long. Better if you DC for $190 and place $150..he,he. Make sure you have depends..because it is a depends bet. Depends on this..depends on that

[heavy]

67% of the time the shooter won't make his pass. I guess this play bets on your timing (luck) more than anything. Could always lay $51 no four and $51 no ten for a partial hedge on that $100 DC.

[DanF]

Getting a DP bet up is better then going for a Big DC. Often you can also see a natural on your side before point is set. You could hedge it with 4&10 or the 5 alone.

Tho taking all the protection bets yo,h4,h10 will be a loser quick. Chosing just yo isn’t such a bad play.

60$ dc, 90$ Lay 5 you put off after comeout, and 5$ yo is an ok play. If you want you can place inside, but I would only go across on a DI & no dc.

I would rathe have 1 laybet then two personaly. Cuz with two you start painting targets on your back. Sometimes I go even further and lay the 8 instead of 5, costs even less.

Sometimes when it’s choppy I go 25 dp 25 lay 8 2$ yo.

[stratocasterman]

Probably does not qualify as any new twist on a Dark Side play but, I seem to do really well with the following in Wincraps wargaming and my local casino choppy to cold table (90% of the time).

CT-SL (choppy table-short leash) method, initially laying enough to cover my DP bet on either the 4,5,9 or 10, until the point is set, and then take the lay down. I am more concerned about being beat by the Seven than the Yo. If beat on the line with a Yo, I'm done with that shooter. Only gonna be beat once per shooter.

Have to bet in $2 increments here, so my grand progression is $6, $14, $30, $62. If beaten at the fourth level, I go into Recovery mode making $24 bets until I Recover my $112. In essence, this is my Baccarat "Target Betting" bet strategy, minus the actual "back to back" Win strategy part of it (for those who have read my A Negative Progression Baccarat Study/Strategy).

I rarely ever have to bet past the third level at $30 but, it does happen. I did actually have to make a $62 bet for the very first time, last time but, Won it.

For the most part, I can hardly even make a Right Side bet anymore at my table, unless it is on myself. This is very sad because I would love some real excitement at the table. Don't get me wrong, I AM ONLY at the casino to make money and that's it!!! But, people rarely ever get excited at the table here. You would think they would learn a lesson or two and follow my Dark Side lead.

How DO you teach people to Win money (NOT Lose) AND have fun doing it? I'm reminded of Heavy's FB article repost the other day, "The Secret of Precision Shooting" where in one section he said, "losing, is NOT my idea of having FUN." That was surely a classic!

[mssthis1]

I ran into a guy in Tahoe that was doing something similar, although he was awful at trying to implement it as he didn't have a handle at all on the betting part.

He played PL + odds. After point set, $75 DC. After DC traveled, bet across, no including PL and DC point. But he didn't take down any numbers after they hit. The play intrigued me once I caught on to what he was doing. I like your idea better of bypassing PL and just placing across.

In 2015 I shot craps in Vegas for two days with a friend who played that way and it didn't go well for him.

I like Heavies way better, taking down the place bets after they hit. That makes up for the times your DC gets picked off.

The next time I hit a bubble I'll try it at low stakes and see how it goes.

[DarthNater]

How goes the Dark Side? Any new twists on your plays? I'm giving serious thought to playing $100 DC after the point is set, then placing $96 across including. Leave the six and eight up. Take down every other number if it hits. Yeah, there's some pucker power at play with that $100 DC "come out." Watch out for PSO's or second roll Yo's.

If the average hand is 4.5 tosses and you don't make your point 67% of the time, why wait till the DC? That means roll 3, roll 4, and for the sake of the fractions, roll 5 are your three chances for a payout, so the most you can get in two rolls is $60 if you hit the four and the ten, as you pull the place bets, you now have $66 inside, which basically is covered by the $60 won. So I kinda see that. But then what? Paraphrasing what 22Inside said, if that sixth roll is the DC number (out $100, net -$40) or a seven (out the $66, win $100 on DC, net --> $34 + $60 = $94). So after dodging the Sheriff and the Deputy, I need two hits, no trash, plus get past that 6th roll to collect some more vs a $100 DP. That sounds like hard work, especially since I can't recall you ever pulling down a 4 or a 10 after they hit. *wink* What about a $96 OHCM instead? Less dilution.......

D.N8r