Team Betting

[rhythm roller]

Hi!

I am looking for some ideas for team betting. Specifically it will be just a two person team and both will be shooters most of the time---depending on ability to get our two positions at the table.

We will be using a joint bankroll. The shooter will go out immediately with betting action and the non shooter will be qualifying the shooter in some fashion such as the five count or a variation of that.

Neither one of us are big fans of the Come bet but would be interested in hearing your ideas for any betting strategy for us to use even if Come betting is involved.

We were thinking something like the shooter establishes a point and if it is say a 5 then they bet on it and the 9 and then the non shooter would take the 6 and 8. That would keep us from doubling up on bets with our money but still not really sure this is the way to go. Have never used a joint bankroll before so this is a puzzle for me. It isn't't really an option to use separate bankrolls for this upcoming trip.

Maybe I should also let you know our approximate DI skills. I would say one of us is about an intermediate level of skill and the other is pretty much at a beginning level of skill.

Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

[amish dude]

If your partner is pretty much at a beginning level of skill.
and you are at the intermediate level you have a long way to go. I practice 5 hours a day 7 days
a week have spent over $200 in books or DVD's spent 10 t0 14 hours with Heavy and 4 hours with
Howard R-n-Rhttp://www.howardrocknroller.com/index.html and in another month of to the GAC Event in July for another 2 day seminar and still consider my self a beginner compared to the likes of XXX and ??? with there 40 and 50 roll plus hands to date my best hand was 30 + rolls
but with a lot of Dice influencing comes a lot of responsibility
1st on your partners list should be viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1561 or Tunica at minimum viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1573
Its better to learn at a seminar then at the table you cant ask questions at the table with an honest on opinionated answer and besides do you want to give them your money to learn the hard way or take a class and have fun doing it both scenario taking a class I had fun and still run to the casino
they are my ATM machine

[heavy]

I would keep it as simple as possible. Two shooters - one stick left and one stick right - Pre-arranged betting strategy - both buy in for exactly the same amount - say $500 each. When the session is over you go to the cage together, cash in your chips together, and chop the total right down the middle. The shooter should play nothing but Pass Line and Odds. The Non-Shooter plays the place bets - whatever strategy you choose. I know a couple of guys who play this way, betting $66 inside for one hit - regressing to $22 inside - then playing a 50% progression from there. And yes, in this example if the point is an inside number the place better plays $66 inside "including." Simple, fair, consistent.

[freak]

My GF and I play as a team all of the time. We've used several different strategies. At first we're usually both full of hope and anxious for a win so we each play the passline and she'll place the 6 and me the 8. If we get a few hits we'll bet the profit. I like the 4 she likes the 9. If things go sour we back off. Only one of us will take the pass and then place only one number. We love to parlay naturals on the comeout. Usually like this: $10 bet becomes $20. Parlay. $20 becomes $40. Keep $15 bet $25. $25 becomes $50. Back down to $15. If it hits craps at any time back down to $10. If a point sets with a lot on the pass don't place odds unless the roll really gets hot. We love the passline parlay. Once we got up to $200 on the passline and all kinds of "helpful" people at the table were telling us to make a minimum passline bet and make the big bet in odds. I just smiled thinking "This IS a $25 passline bet. I just left it there growing while this guy his 4 7-11's in a row and made $175 profit. BUt I digress...Team play... If things get worse she stops betting and I play the don't. I can get into the don't if it wins. She isn't comfortable laying odds so she just waits. If things turn back positive she get's back in. Sometimes we go for a while with me playing don't and her on the pass with a few placed bets. Mostly this just passes chips from me to her or vise versa but the great thing is we both get to PLAY which is the reason we came. We like to win, but more than that we love the game so it's hard to sit and watch even if the other person is winning. This strategy keeps us poised and ready should a big roll appear. Another thing we do sometimes is tag team. I'll start. If I lose she takes the next roller. Many times one of us just wasn't "feeling it" and so passed to the other person with good results. At the very least it gives you a chance to gather yourself without losing your spot at the table. No matter what your strategy it feels better to have a partner at the table with you - win or lose.

[SHOOTITALL]

My favorite team betting strategy:
I play a flat DC bet, every shooter, one loss. My partner plays PL same way, one loss only.
Then we drink all the free booze we can stand. Works pretty well. heehee

[heavy]

If you'd both bet at the $250 level you'd earn a shit load of comps on top of that. Cost you about $7.00 a hand, though (factoring in the vig on $500 action). Guess you could get a partial hedge by betting a $7 Midnight on every come out. Hmmm.

[BradHall]

I'm new to dice influencing and craps in general so I have a few questions about:

If you'd both bet at the $250 level you'd earn a shit load of comps on top of that. Cost you about $7.00 a hand, though (factoring in the vig on $500 action). Guess you could get a partial hedge by betting a $7 Midnight on every come out. Hmmm.

1. Would it be a good idea to have a partner, in my case my wife, use this strategy of one bets the Pass Line the other bets the Don't Pass when we first get to the table to help groove in the toss and get rid of the first session jitters while reducing risk to the bankroll? If the shooting begins producing desired numbers then start using whatever strategy we have for our signature numbers.
2. If we used the $250 level on the PL/DP to earn comps would the casino still rate us for that level knowing we are together and what could we do to disguise it better so they don't pick up on it so quickly?
3. Could you explain where you get the $7 vig on $500 action from?
4. My ignorance will probably be very evident with this question but can my wife and I exchange money with each other at the table?

As a beginner DI with a trip to Vegas in August I sure would like to earn a shit load of comps during the learning phase.

[heavy]

1. Would it be a good idea to have a partner, in my case my wife, use this strategy of one bets the Pass Line the other bets the Don't Pass when we first get to the table to help groove in the toss and get rid of the first session jitters while reducing risk to the bankroll? If the shooting begins producing desired numbers then start using whatever strategy we have for our signature numbers.

It's not a bad play. Just remember that the bigger the bet the bigger the vig. More on that in a minute.

2. If we used the $250 level on the PL/DP to earn comps would the casino still rate us for that level knowing we are together and what could we do to disguise it better so they don't pick up on it so quickly?

This is a bit of a challenge. A savvy pit critter is going to pick up on what you're doing right away. Unfortunately, due to the old Patriot Act using a false name when obtaining a players card can get your tail in a crack. Probably the simplest way to approach this is to have the bride get a players card under her maiden name - assuming she still has some ID around under her maiden name. Then go out of your way to make it appear you are not together at the table. Buy in at opposite ends, for example. Don't buy in at exactly the same time. That sort of thing.

3. Could you explain where you get the $7 vig on $500 action from?

The vig on the Pass or Don't Pass bets is 1.41%. You have a total of $500 in action. Multiply that times 1.41% and you'll get something like $7.05. That's the vig. Since the Do and Don't bets offset each other except for the 12 (the Don't Pass is barred on the 12) that's where the house advantage lies.

4. My ignorance will probably be very evident with this question but can my wife and I exchange money with each other at the table?

You can, but it is frowned on by the pit. One of the standard practices we recommend if you want to buy in mid-hand sometime is to buy some chips from another player, assuming you are acquainted with him/her. It's something I do all the time. But the pit makes a serious effort at tracking each player's buy in and win/loss. It's a major factor in calculating comps, which is why they want to track it.

Let me officially go on record saying that even though I tossed out this idea - I don't particularly care for the Doey-Don't strategy. Still, it's a decent way to get acclimated to the game without major exposure. Use it with a partner to get your toss grooved in. But when a hand develops be prepared to transition to the right side and bet with confidence. That means you should have a predetermined strategy that you can play flawlessly, e.g. the six and eight progression we talk about here from time to time.

Keep those questions coming. You are asking things that a lot of forum members need to know.

[rhythm roller]

Thanks everyone who posted for your ideas and input. I plan to try out a few of these next week when I go to Vegas.

If you haven't posted yet but have suggestions for me----keep those ideas coming!

[heavy]

Let me chime in with another suggestion to consider - it's Shootitall's "One Hit - Can't Miss" strategy. If you play it as a "team" then one person would play a Don't Pass wager for . . . say $30. Let's have that team member shoot from the Don'ts. The other team member will place the six and eight for $30 each. This is your point of maximum exposure - you could lose $30 if the shooter sevens out before getting a hit on the six or eight. But after one hit (pays $35) you cannot lose on that hand. You're guaranteed a net $5 win. Just continue shooting at that point and hope the shooter hits about a dozen sixes and eights before sevening out. And if you get to the point that you have a nice profit locked up you can always regress those place bets to $12 or $18 each or take them down completely and just go for the seven.

[vegasfan2010]

Irish, I will try yours. It looks good to try.

[Americraps]

THE TWO FOR 1, TWO PLAYER PLAY-

Here's a nifty little 2 player play, I thought of while in the shower today- especially good for when you bring your wife to the casino, it works even if she hates craps.
Player 1 is either a DI having a bad day, frying pan equipped teammate, or a non skilled assistant, situated at SR2.
Player 2 is the shooter, SR1

Player 1 (the non shooter) gets the dice and establishes the point, then passes the dice. At that point she can leave the table or stay for another round
Player 2 completes player 1's hand, then gets to shoot again as it is his turn next, thus getting two for one.

This should work at least once per session but I haven't tried it. Let me know how it works.

[rhythm roller]

Americraps,

I like this one! Would work especially well at a table that is filling up prior to your second round with the dice. DI could get the two shots in a row with the dice and then both of you could move on to greener pastures. Will have to try this next visit to Vegas if an opportunity arises. The surprise factor on the boxmam's face in itself might be worth the deviation. I am thinking this would work better in a casino where you are not particularly known and don't want to play a lot in the future. Thanks for the idea!

[HornHighJoe]

just a note:

if you doing this to "stay under the radar" then each person should bet the same way regardless if they are shooting or not. Just something to keep in mind.

[pappyvanwinkle]

*SIGH* Just noticed this thread is years old!, oh well, my suggestions still apply

I'd suggest that your other shooter and yourself have a long conversation before engaging in this. The reasons for that is, you said you were going to be using a shared bankroll. This can get problematic, especially if the skill levels of the people are not roughly the same. One person may feel their doing all the work. What typically ends up happening is ego get's in the way. Let's say the table is turning, and one of you feels it's time to wrap up, but the other doesn't want to leave. Even if you both put up the same amount into the bankroll, are your tolerances the same? If the plan was to bet a certain way, and let's say you get a stone cold table and lost a few in a row, are you sure one of you is not going to break with the plan and start betting differently?

What's happening now when your friend and yourself go out to play? Do you feel your not making enough money? I'm just wondering what the impetus was for Team betting or what you believe you'll get from it. Maybe you just need a different betting system that works for you. As you've seen from some of the systems Heavy and others have mentioned, I'd say Team Betting is really just hedging your bet, so you win here, but lose there, so you get a smaller profit.

Pappy

[SHOOTITALL]

Nevermind. I think if you worked on splitting the One hit - Can't miss at home until you were comfortable and know what to do in most situations, you would come out ahead. That is a money maker when a hand develops as you cannot lose (after just ONE 6 or 8 hit). So far. I have not figured a way to squeeze it down more.

[rhythm roller]

Thanks for the responses!

First, shared bankroll because we are married and the money all comes from the same bank account anyway. We do both have chips in front of us but buy in and split the buy in amount.

Just wanted to see if there was anyway to maximize or bet smarter while doing this like not betting the same number unless a hand develops and a certain number becomes a repeater.

Happy to report in the three years since I asked this question both my husband and my shot have improved quite a bit and our discipline has become excellent. We now win many more sessions than we lose and things continue to go in the right direction.

Thanks again for all of your responses and if anyone else has any good ideas on betting I am sure we or someone else on the forum would enjoy reading them.