What's the Point in Lay Betting?

[luxlogs]

IF you set the ALL-SEVEN dice set on the Come-Out cycle of your hand -

AND IF you do NOT - LAY BET - ONE or MORE numbers during this event -

In MY opinion - YOU - are NOT capitalizing on the full potential of the winning Come-Out 7 -

e.g. - IF you can throw ONE or MORE 7's on the Come-Out cycle(s) of your hand -

AND - IF - you were to wager / lay bet - say $30 per box number with an upfront $1 vig on each -

WORST case scenario you LOSE $31 - BUT - stand to PROFIT / WIN $120 - LESS the $6 vig -

IF you LOSE on ONE number -

TAKE DOWN the remaining numbers and play your normal game -

UNTIL your next Come-Out -

Then do as above -

With a " 7 " on the Come-Out - you can WIN ALL bets -

But only LOSE ONE -

What better odds / results / Return Of Investment ( ROI ) could you possibly want ?

$...eE..$

Brilliant, Only thing I can add is a Horn High Yo.

[Maddog]

... I probably wouldn't try it if there were more than 2 or 3 players at the table, MAX. Make sure you're instructions are clear.

Everything Irish mentioned in his post, but especially what I quoted above. It will NOT be fun if you try this at anything but an empty table. I've played this a few time, but only when I've had the table to myself, and even then it usually takes a couple of rounds before the dealers start to understand what you are doing and process the concept. Even then they are not very keen on setting it all up and then tearing it all down. Not that you need to cater to the needs of the dealer, but it helps the game to not do odd-ball stuff on a busy table.

I've seen our guys do this a few times. Once time it was early morning at the "M" down on the south end of Vegas. There were a few of us playing on one table where we were mostly treading water or dropping a little at a time. One of our guys notices that the table next to us was empty so slide over there to try this play. I could hear him explaining what he wanted to the dealer for his come out action which took a minute to get straight. I don't remember if it took a roll or two, but our guy basically got the come-out seven right away. It was fun to see the lights really go off in dealers head as he and the box worked together to figure out the payoff. Suddenly the dealers became very interested in this bet and worked to set it up quickly the next go around.

Seems I remember working through the numbers and figured you could knock off a couple of box numbers and still come out ahead (if you want to keep the lay's up and working hoping for a PSO or PPSO type hand), but any more then 3 and you were in the red.

[rhythm roller]

I think tipping will always help keep the dealers happy. I haven't tried it on the Lay across bet but have done it on the $204 across when I am shooting and on a $10 table or higher. When I regress after two hits I flip the dealers $5 and say something like I know it is a lot of work to set that up and take it down and I appreciate that. They don't seem to mind the set up and take down after that. Making them understand your Lay bet in the first place is a different issue.

[Cap-n_Lou]

Great advice from all. I've been keen on lay bets on the come out for a long time (usually pair a 4/10 or 5/9, or just one # not all across) but I often hesitate because it is unusual and will slow things down. But a tip here and there "for the effort" does wonders. Thanks for the insights, Rhythym, Maddog, and Irish. (Sounds like a law firm dedicated to craps!)

[mssthis1]

If I'm playing by myself I'll lay $180.00 across and slide the survivors into place bets after a point is established. I realize many can't or don't want to play at this level but it works slick if you're playing alone or maybe a couple other players max as Irish and Maddog noted.

I only do this on the initial comeout and only at places that don't charge the vig upfront. If I toss a pass line winner I leave sleeping dogs lay so I can try to keep a decent rhythm and also reduce the chances of a darting or looky lou Randy tossing $20.00 on the layout.

[DocDays]

Controlling the dice might have another side we might not be exploiting enough or at all: SUPER DARK

During most of my short hands on my last vacation, I noticed I would hit a 7, even when I was trying my best to avoid them. I figured that I could not avoid a 7, why not see if I could reduce my normal SRR of 7.5 to Zero. I decided to see if I could actually throw 7's or at least try to make a 7 within 10 shots of getting the dice. After a few hours of training, I noticed that I could roll a 7 with pretty good results, using the HW set and landing at the bottom of the back wall, I could likewise avoid the 7 by aiming 2" from the back wall.

After 2 days of training, I got my SRR to 5. I tried different dice sets, like the 7 all around set, but that just made it harder to chart the outcome of the dice. I made 9's three times in a row once, and was able to transpose the dice on the next row to make a 7. My average of getting the seven was 5 rolls, and the longest was 12 rolls. During every training session the average Pay-off was $2K for each 30 minutes of throwing, or that would relate to about 2 hours during a real table in a Casino, if there were other players at the table.

The testing used a very aggressive $25 starting bet and progressed an additional $25 after each missed 7. Here is the bet: 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200. This requires a game money stake of $900 to finally win $100 at the end of 8 rolls. I did notice during the testing, the best results of hitting a 7 was to always think SEVEN during my throws; you must: Think 7 with every toss. I made only the table minimum Pass-Line bet each time.

Everything was working great until I rolled a Monster Hand of 26 rolls. This happened about 4 hours into my testing. That is where I came up with the plan: Think Only 7's as I threw. By day 3 of testing, I had brought my SRR to 4. I think the dice will listen, or do better if you tell them a good number to roll; like, lets say: 6 1, instead of just asking for a 7. The only down side to being "Super Dark" is the other players on the table will all go home broke.

I have always tried to throw Box numbers to win, this might be a great advantage for our game! After my July trip to Cherokee and getting the nick-name: Mr. Seven, I am now honored to put that name to good use.

[bobbylee]

$NAKE
That's also what I see in casinos - most dealers, excepting new ones who are immediately apparent.

[Cap-n_Lou]

When I've been somewhere the dealers aren't as experienced or even where they appear to be quite good, sometimes I'll just mention to the one next to me (I always try to stand at the hook) that I'm thinking of making a lay bet and I run some numbers by him or her hypothetically just to let him/her know it might be coming. Like I'll ask a rhetorical question (i.e., "what's the vig on a $120 no 5?") just to get them cued up and they can give me the answer and feel like they're in control. Sometimes I'll wait until the dice come to me and then it's less disruptive. More often than not it has been no problem for me.

[heavy]

When I want to test the dealer's math skills I just ask "What does a $37 Yo pay?"

The answer is $555 in most casinos.

[Cap-n_Lou]

I'm going to ask the same question some time and then bet $2.

[acpa]

Isn't it some of the Ceasers properties in Vegas where the answer would be 518 since they pay only 14, not 15?
You understand the difference between 15 TO 1 and 15 FOR 1. The table in these casinos shot the 15.

Noah

[London Shooter]

Pretty sure CET also do 30 FOR 1 on the 2 and 12 in some spots

[acpa]

Yeah all the center table bet or "FOR" with the normal number for the individual craps and yo bets as well as FOR also on the hards.

I'm not sure but think that also applies on all the hop bets. I'm not sure but believe the hop on the individual seven are also 15 FOR. Since I have never bet any of those prop bets, I'm not sure but think the "big red" pay 5 FOR 1.

Noah

[London Shooter]

Big red is definitely 5 for 1. V early on in my craps career I was not familiar with the American usage of FOR instead of TO.

I thought any seven was the best bet on the table, with 0% house edge

[Dylanfreake]

Craps is a simple game that we complicate.

[luxlogs]

Craps is a simple game that we complicate.

Sounds a lot like Marriage.

[Cap-n_Lou]

Even though it's meant to trick the player, I have to grudgingly admire the use of "for" by the casinos. Then it's assumed your bet stays up. Every edge they can get away with, they take ...

I was watching "Casino" on Amazon Prime last night. Hadn't seen it in some time. The intro segment especially does a great job of setting up how the casinos were built on separating players from their money while making them think they could win. With Scorcese directing and Joe Pesci doing his full-out crazy -- can't miss.

[Dark Side]

Craps is a simple game that we complicate.

You've got that right DF.

DS

[mssthis1]

Craps is a simple game that we complicate.

You've got that right DF.

DS

I agree. If it wasn't for the fact that you lose your turn after a seven out I would probably play the dark side exclusively.

Back in the day when Iowa made the river boats cruise for 2 hours a day we spent 3 days at Harrah's Council Bluffs. Each morning I played craps alone for 2 hours during the cruise with a basic $5 DP and up to 3 $5 DC bet with double odds which was all they allowed back then. Made money each time using a pluckem and chuckem approach.

When the day comes that I have more control over the times I can and can not play I'll probably concentrate on playing the dark side only and seek out the times with the most empty tables.

[Dark Side]

I agree. If it wasn't for the fact that you lose your turn after a seven out I would probably play the dark side exclusively.

If tossing the dice is an important part of your game, play the dark side on all shooters and play the right side when the stick pushes the dice to you.

Just a thought ...

DS