Darksider's Ball - GAC?

[heavy]

Bottom line - we trained them so well in class no one could seven out. I guess the evil casino had substituted the "pass" dice into the game instead of the "don't pass."

[DarthNater]

LOL..... I was a few minutes late, shooting from the left end, but think things averaged out reasonably even at the DSB for me. While I've definitely seen colder tables (I'd rate this choppy trending cold). I thought it was better playing the DC than the DP for the first 45 minutes. Then there was a streak of quick seven-outs that lead me to the DP. As I recall the next hour saw a few numbers and points being made, such that I covered the 6 & 8 while preparing to gain a few $$. But I didn't press those bets, as when you know the shooter is trying to seven-out, what's the point. I didn't chase a loss or double up on odds as I figured - Ok if a guy has trouble and knocks a couple of points; the next guy will PSO. I ended the evening down $71; $16 of which came from my first attempt of a new toss from SL after the BDC ended. I don't know if anyone recorded tosses, but I bet the MP with the CT-SL would have been a good play, or my buddy at Stations that plays the DP at $70 - $150 - $290 - $580 - $1160 with the daily win goal of $400 would also like the DSB.

It was worth the $70 to listen to the right-siders whine - several totally lost focus. The righty next to me told me he had made 4 points when the right side of the table started darksiding him. He really got amped when I said, well they're winning - sounds like a plan, and bet a DC. I guess I could have been kinder, but there were like ten guys already betting dark - and here comes the Shocka. I took my win, winked at him and said "It's the Force".

D.N8r

[mssthis1]

Many of the players on this thread have thousands of hours of live craps play time and what happens during any given 2 hour period is pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If it wasn't for the fact that you lose the dice on a seven out I would play the dark side pretty much exclusively.

[heavy]

Yep. I'm with you on that one.

[DarthNater]

Thanks, Dave.
While 3.5 rolls for an average seven out is a nice goal, not sure its "actionable" as MP might say for betting. From my perspective, when you're betting darkside I prefer a string of shooters to seven out instead of every other one sevening out quickly on average. Patience is a virtue and necessary for achieving the primary goal of making some money, there were a couple of times, it took a count greater than 10 before a decision was made. That can be rough on the second guessing. As much as I like the CT-SL, I stop at the $75 level, which usually also gets a $5 yo. I stop simply because I'd rather not do the $155 level bet even though I could. My rationale is its not trending cold if I'm already been knocked down four in a row. I think you need to be aware of these micro trends in darksiding. The DSB was interesting to watch as there were many different strategies on display. As the degree of coldness was more varied than I think most people expected. I saw a lot of adapting and trying different approaches with some, but not steady success. I was at the far side, but could see a couple of players at the other end that were using progressions and pressing their odds; while someone else was setting a don't and using it to protect place bets. On my side someone was laying both the 4 & 10, while I was switching between DCs and DPs. It would have been interesting to have a debrief afterwards and discuss strategy.

D.N8r

[wild child]

It may seem curious to we who choose to shoot The Do Not's when we have a
" Table 4 One"
Setting the Hard Six as " \ \ " Top and Hard 4 "/ / " Vertical facing shooter
delivers remarkable results that only a Double Pitch can bring to a screeching Seven Out
>
Ever notice how many trials ( attempts ) it takes to pull out THE S O ?

just me saying

w c

[mssthis1]

Personally, I feel the dark side is the better choice for a person with a limited bankroll.

If you set a point of 6 with a $5.00 pass line bet and $10.00 odds win it, then set another point with the same amounts and seven out you will win $2.00 net because you lose your $15.00 that was in action.

If you set a point of six with a $5.00 don't pass and $12.00 odds, then toss your seven out you win $15.00 net because you get to keep the money you had out there for the original bet.

[DarthNater]

Dave,
Yep, I'll lay odds on 4, 10, 5 & 9. Pretty much automatically. Single odds. If I win three in a row, I'll go to double odds. On my first several lays, I use a partial hardway hedge - i.e. $2 when I lay $20. or a nickel when I lay $40. I am content with single or double odds, as I like the mental awareness I maintain by playing the don't until I shoot. Never more than 2 lays at once. If it's Titanic cold, I'll lay $60, but not until I've built up a few winners. I am a bit reluctant to lay odds on the 6 or 8, though when the table is cold, you never seem to see many 6 or 8, so yeah, then I'll lay them too. If the first DC travels to the 6 or 8, then I'll leave it flat and try another DC before I lay odds. Also if the shooter has a rhythm to their toss, I may wait a toss before I lay - just me over-thinking about the bullfrogger. I do not use the hardway hedge when I lay the 6 or 8 odds.

Unless I've made the decision to play a CTSL, I won't let a shooter knock off more than two DPs in a row, but I will pump up the second DP i.e if 1st was $5 - second will be $15. If first was $10, then second is $25. I will use Yo hedges for the $15 or $25. I have also tended to press my DC lays when a point is made, as the best thing in the don't world is that come-out seven when you've got a couple of DCs with odds

I resist increasing my flats after each win, I know guys like to do that, but I hate increasing only to get my DP knocked by the devil. I rack, never stack. I pay strong attention to what the come-out numbers are trending, if a lot of 6s or 8s are set as points, I start sensing a temperature shift, and go to one DC and see what happens. Its surprising how many players at the tables have no idea how the don'ts work, as I seem to always get lots of questions, and once I answer their takeaway is "I can't do that...." LOL - sure you can - it beats losing.....

D.N8r

[DarthNater]

Dave,
I don't do lays to cover the DP. I've toyed with it, but don't do it in the casino yet. I'm content to let the DP ride it out on its own, as I'm generally at $25 or less for the flat, but will cover the Yo. Nor do I do it when I play the CT-SL. A fellow I know does a $100 DP with a $50 Lay on the 4 & 10 to get past the Comeout; then removes the lays and lays $300 on the DP for odds and bets a $50 DC, followed by two more $50 DCs with $300 lays when they travel - that's too many targets for me. I've been looking at scaling that approach, but its not ready for prime time; and I'd bet less DCs. He doesn't hedge either lay with hardways.

D.N8r

[DarthNater]

Dave,
CT-SL is short for the Mad Professor's Choppy Table - Short Leash approach to betting the darkside. I'm sure his Heavy-ness has it in a thread somewhere around here although not sure what carried over from his prior site. In any case you can also google it, or perhaps MP will check in with the links.

I agree that lays can counteract a string of come-out sevens and I'd likely do it at higher bet levels; however my darkside endeavors currently are more focused on sustaining myself and growing my revenue while in between when I get the dice. To me a string of come-out sevens could be an alert that the table might be warming, and I might think about going up on the 6 & 8 after the point is set and see if I can get a few hits with a DC as protection. However a few friends do quite well with that lay on the come-out approach

D.N8r

[DarthNater]

DG,
I'm not familiar with the Ric, what's it about?
I don't think I've ever gone past $75 on the CTSL, I'd rather just shut it down and take the licking than get hammered, as its about getting the dice back, D.N8r

[DarthNater]

Oh yeah, the ricochet; sorry, must have been in outer space...... done it once in awhile - I generally put a $1 on the DC as the dealers have trouble with all the moves, but it can be a good grind, D.N8r

[DarthNater]

Here's some epilog to the DSB..... this week I got an invite from the DSB Casino wanting me back for a weekend - not an A+ offer, but the first time they've reached out in ages. Might have to strap on the helmet and crank up the force, D.N8r