Does raising the table limits really do you any good in your

[Roller123]

Just boats in this area. If you got them to raise the limit to $100 you could play by yourself all night.

Roller

[Mad Professor]

Now you might not find it a problem to raise the limits in your neck of the woods, but here in Vegas it just doesn't do any good when you are playing on the strip.

Now here's my problem with playing at these type of tables, there still is no guarantee that no matter what limit you set the table at here in Vegas it will not stop others from buying in on your game.

In my neck of the woods raising the table limits might not do a thing for you, what about yours?

So even if your pal raises the mid-week table-minimum sperm-count to $100 at other Strip haunts like CircusCircus, Stratosphere, Casino Royale, Imperial Palace, Bill's Gambling Hall, Riviera, Excalibur, Slots o Fun, Treasure Island, Flamingo, Monte Carlo, NewYork NewYork, Bally's, and the Tropicana...that $100 table will immediately fill in with all of those $5000, $10,000, and $25,000 buy-ins???

WOW! Vegas is obviously doing G.R.E.A.T. Now I can understand why you are always so frustrated, Rick.



MP

[heavy]

Well, this situation is just something you'll have to live with playing at Bellagio or Caesars.

I've successfully booked private tables at NYNY with as little as 10 players guaranteeing a $500 buy in each with a $10 minimum bet. These days they want $1000 buy in and a $15 bet, but I don't think it would be tough to arrange.

As for playing at $100 tables as an invited "low roller" tag-along - yep. Been there - done that. Honestly, most of my profit in situations like that has generally come in tokes from the high roller who was appreciatiative of a hardway or some other prop bet win I tossed for him.

As for my local joints - nothing used to tick e off more than to walk into a casino with two tables open - one standard game on a 12 footer and one crapless 14 fotter - and find two guys playing for $100 at opposite ends of the table - and the entire table roped off to accomodate them - usually with a half-dozen or more players standing around wishing they could get on the game. Pitiful.

[DeadCat]

Everything is relative. Bellagio is one of the most high-end casinos in the US. Why anyone would think that a $100 minimum bet would get them an empty table there is beyond me.

During prime time hours Bellagio usually has several tables open and one of them is usually $100. I don't think you have to ask for it special, unless it is really slow or off hours.

On the other hand, a walk across the street to Bally's, Bill's, Planet Hollywood, Harrah's or Flamingo and it is a completely different story. At some of those places raising to even $25 thin things considerably.


-DC

[heavy]

As an individual I prefer to go to the tables alone or with one or two close DI pals whose style and expected results I am comfortable with. However, when I do the seminars one of the things I talk about is the fact that I'll step up to the tables with anyone who signs on for one of my classes - as long as they can work within my schedule. By that I mean - if I tell you I'm going to be playing at Bally's at 5AM I am going to be there - come on down. But don't call me at 2AM and ask me to drive out to Red Rock to play a session when what I'm really trying to do is catch 4 hours sleep before I have to be at Bally's. Anyway, in those instances it's a business decision. And occasionally a group of us will get together over in Shreveport/Bossier to take on the casinos. But the great thing about that is everyone goes in their own vehicle and is free to leave whenever they feel the need. If things aren't going well you can bet it won't be long before someone asks "Where's Heavy?"

[KnowNothing]

What's the conversation?

Attempting to find empty tables? If you don't find any, raise stakes on other peoples games to obain objective at table?

...simply curious

[memo]

When you lose playing by your self you only have yourself to blame, and that's the way it should be, you're the one that lost not the guy that you were betting on.  
 

I am not sure how we got here, in this thread....But I cannot agree more with this statement. It is kinda, two thoughts, both are right on

Memo

[pappyvanwinkle]

I'd say it's more a case of maximizing your advantage or opportunity to make a profit. I'd say it's pretty much universally agreed that you would do better on a craps table with less interference aka other people. You can accomplish this acouple of different ways,

1. Change the time of your play, to when there are minimal other players.
2. Get a private table.
3. Play on a table with a higher table limit, to filter out the majority of other players.

With 1 the major downside is, the timeframe may be really inconvenient for you, but you can play at the limit your comfortable with. Also, your selection may be limited, at times, the casino may only have 1 table going, so you may not be able to switch tables etc. Who knows, you could get stuck with a loud drunk whose been up all night at the one table thats open. Are you going to not play, knowing later on there's going to be more people in casino and likely more people on the table or play and deal with a loud drunk who maybe tossing in chips all over the place.

You could do option 3, and depending where you are, they might only make the limit higher on half the table. Again depending on where you are, you might end up with a private table, because no one else wants to play at that higher table limit. Unfortunately, higher table limits are not a guarantee that the people who do buy in on that table know the etiquette or really HOW to play. You would think with higher table limits you'd get a more knowledgeable/better class of player. I'm sure we've all seen it, some random guy just decides to buy in for some huge amount and just starts betting randomly or something.

The setup:
3 open tables,
1 - $10 table limit - Packed with people, cheers every now and then, no one with alot of chips
1 - $10 table limit - half full, no one cheering, no big chip stacks either.
1 - $50 table limit - One player

You were on both $10 table's, the one full of people was lukewarm at best, but it was taking forever to get the dice back, both in the middle of your hand and for the dice to go around the table. The other $10 table let's say had newbies, so were making betting mistakes/needed dealer assistance constantly etc, so dice are taking awhile to get back to you. You move to the $50 table. and virtually have it to yourself, the one other player is just quiet and happy to finally be winning a few and they don't want to shoot so the dice just keep coming back to you

A group of people come in and comes to the $50 table. The group buys in for $15,000. You've got the major delay in the game now while the box counts out all the money. The whale of the group understands only the basics of the game. One guy is explaining to someone else how to play the game/what is going on. There's one darksider in the mix explaining their style of play and how their betting with the House. And last but now least you've got the clueless but very attractive girl who the whale just gave $1000 to play with who doesn't know when or what to bet on. Your hand ends when the dice hits someone's hand making a late bet(Hopefully it wasn't the attractive girl, since I really don't want to be pissed at her). You stay to see if their energy transfer to the dice, and the dice don't see a spark.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

1. Go back to the $10 tables with the bottom feeders?
2. Wait out the entourage, don't bet and just enjoy the view?
3. Leave and go back to bed?
4. ???

[memo]

In answer to the original question....

A year or two back, I was having dinner with a few DI friends. It was a busy Sat. night in Vegas...I was pushing for a look around to see if we could find any 'unpopulated tables'..
Half of us did the 'right thing' and retired for the night. DC and I traveled to Bellagio.

It was prime time and a mad house. All but one or two tables were open, and at first glance...Jammed. I was a few steps ahead of DC and spyed two tables back left, that were wide open. I husteled around there. The first one was black chip and open...No suprise. The second was green chip, open, and probably the last opportunity to play for the night. DC caught up and after a brief discussion, we decided to play, but he would have to suppliment his bank roll, so we made a quick trip to the ATM.

When we got back, it was still open. We took up position. I was buying in and DC noticed that it was now a ten dollar table. He inquired and they said that management had just dropped it. The boxman asked if we wanted them to raise it back up...
Without missing a beat, DC replied that of course, they can raise it back up if they grandfathered us in at ten.

And that is how we got to play at Bellagio, on an unpopulated table, during one of the busiest Sat. nights I have seen. Yeah, every once in awhile, someone would buy in and play for a few minutes then move on. Some would come up and lay a few numbers as they do there, carrying a handful of black chips from table to table looking for an opportunity. (That was like walking into a lions den)

Why that table stayed open for so long I don't really know, (possibly being in the back, I dunno) but when it did finally begin to fill up, DC and I had made our money, and were ready to leave. We did not hurt the casino, in fact, we filled up a previously dead table. Win-win for all concerned. (Except of course the lay bettors)

Memo

[WOLFBYTE]

Yo, Carbon Units......

On my March junket trip to Laughlin, I was on the #1 craps table and it was full of RR's. They were opening

Craps table #2......so..... being empty, I drifted over. I opened playing the DP line and proceeded in losing -$800.00

by making 6 points, in a row. I was on the DP line....so.... I went back to the RR's on table #1 because I knew they

were prone to 7-outs. Sure enough, they were NOT making their points.....so.... I recovered my losses, off the DP

line ....in short order.

Harraha's flies in weekend craps players from as far away as Minn. to Laughin, Nv. They are not DI's.....so...most

7-out. If you play the DP box you can make nice bucks off RR's.

I have been back-testing the 35,000 craps rolls out of Zumma's.... ' Craps System Testing Book ' and my

testing validates making $$$$ off RR's playing off the DP line. I know this because the Zumma craps tester book was

completed before craps players were DI'ing.

DI'ers apparently do NOT play in Laughlin because in 27 Months, I have not seen a single craps dice-setter take $$$

off the Harraha's two craps tables.

Why do DI'ers seem to ' NOT ' take $$$$ off the craps tables ??????????????????????

WBB

[DeadCat]

When we got back, it was still open. We took up position. I was buying in and DC noticed that it was now a ten dollar table. He inquired and they said that management had just dropped it. The boxman asked if we wanted them to raise it back up...
Without missing a beat, DC replied that of course, they can raise it back up if they grandfathered us in at ten.

........................

Why that table stayed open for so long I don't really know, (possibly being in the back, I dunno) but when it did finally begin to fill up, DC and I had made our money, and were ready to leave. We did not hurt the casino, in fact, we filled up a previously dead table. Win-win for all concerned. (Except of course the lay bettors)

Memo

Hehehe.... That was a good night. If I recall correctly you were absolutely pounding the 6 and 8 but not making too many points, while I was setting and repeating points quickly and hitting only a few Place bets but we both made out. Good times.


-DC

[WOLFBYTE]

Scribe,

Good to hear from you.

How is Vegas ?

Being off junket flights and playing mostly at 3:00AM, most all the players I have been playing with are retirees and mid-Western types.

Well, it was raining cats and dogs with massive hail yesterday here in Ca.

Our local Indian Casino baccarat table opens at 11:00AM....so.... I am thinking of doing more $$$$-Harvesting today.

WBB

[heavy]

Everybody loves to write about advantage-play when playing craps, but most will never try to set their table time so they have an advantage, with nobody else on the table when they are playing.

Rick, if you keep making wholesale statements like that people are going to continue to challenge you. Just about every DI I know times his play so that crowds are minimal. Of course, you have to separate their individual play from their "funsie" sessions where they're jammed up and high-fiving it with a bunch of like minded friends. SIA and I have dubbed those sort of sessions "Jailbreak Sessions" because when a new table opens all of our guys look l ike a bunch of escapees from jail bolting for stick left and srick right at the new table. But seriously - in the great scheme of things I think most of us plan the bulk of our play around the best table conditions.

[realtime]

Uh Heavy,

Is it possible to "BOLT" using walkers, canes, scooters, or crutches?

[heavy]

I thought I'd bump this thread up in light of the fact that in most markets - with the limit of six players per table - we're seeing $5 tables running at $10 - $15 and $10 - $15 tables running at $25. On weekends it's not unusual to walk into a casino and find nothing but $25 - $50 and $100 games. We complain, but every slot at every table is taken and people are backed up waiting for a spot to jump in. What's your take on all of this. Does raising the table limits help or hurt you? Certainly if you're playing on a short bankroll you have to change your strategy, but is that all that bad? Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe playing at a higher limit game makes you a smarter player. Maybe it improves your money management and discipline skills. Or maybe you'll just wander over and play penny slots and bitch about the table limits. You tell me.

[DarthNater]

Does raising the table limits help or hurt you? Certainly if you're playing on a short bankroll you have to change your strategy, but is that all that bad? Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe playing at a higher limit game makes you a smarter player. Maybe it improves your money management and discipline skills. Or maybe you'll just wander over and play penny slots and bitch about the table limits. You tell me.

There’s more volatility so I tiptoe in with solo DPs looking for a quick win or two, then try to leverage from there. I think the bigger problem will be not being able to chart tables ahead of your buy in to see if it’s trending. That too will make things tighter.

However with only five others at the table, I should get to toss much faster as less guys to plow thru between hands, DN8R

[Bankerdude80]

I find that I am more reckless on a $5 table. "What's another $5?" Tossing in hardway bets or making come and field bets. My most profitable sessions have usually occurred on $15 tables where I am much more tight fisted with my money. I rarely play $25 tables, but in this new environment I may have to adjust and just play a more conservative game. If you have an advantage through your toss, you should be able to grow your bankroll at a faster clip playing higher limit tables.

When playing, think in terms of units as opposed to dollars. Think of the time it takes to get to green chip level by playing on a $5 table. If you're pressing one unit at a time, that's four press moves before you get to green. On a $25 table you could be at $100. Keep things in perspective though, bet only what your bankroll can support. If it's a question of playing with a small bankroll or not playing, don't play. Build up the bankroll first until you can play and bet at a comfortable level. Play with discipline. Always make sure you are not betting in a way that increases your risk of ruin. Optimally size your bets if you can.

Remember Heavy's mantra, "If it ain't fun, it's time to run."

[Alohajonny]

I find that I am more reckless on a $5 table. "What's another $5?" Tossing in hardway bets or making come and field bets. My most profitable sessions have usually occurred on $15 tables where I am much more tight fisted with my money. I rarely play $25 tables, but in this new environment I may have to adjust and just play a more conservative game. If you have an advantage through your toss, you should be able to grow your bankroll at a faster clip playing higher limit tables.

When playing, think in terms of units as opposed to dollars. Think of the time it takes to get to green chip level by playing on a $5 table. If you're pressing one unit at a time, that's four press moves before you get to green. On a $25 table you could be at $100. Keep things in perspective though, bet only what your bankroll can support. If it's a question of playing with a small bankroll or not playing, don't play. Build up the bankroll first until you can play and bet at a comfortable level. Play with discipline. Always make sure you are not betting in a way that increases your risk of ruin. Optimally size your bets if you can.

Remember Heavy's mantra, "If it ain't fun, it's time to run."

Well put BD!

We're going to find out about table limits this week coming! I can't hardly wait...I'll be in town this Thursday on some personal business and will let you guys know how it looks.

[DarthNater]

Well put BD!

We're going to find out about table limits this week coming! I can't hardly wait...I'll be in town this Thursday on some personal business and will let you guys know how it looks.

Jonny, great that you’re coming to town, shoot me an email and we can recon together, DN8R

[heavy]

Jonny, great that you’re coming to town, shoot me an email and we can recon together, DN8R

Now we're talking. I get in Thursday afternoon around 4:30PM. Text me and we'll make it a threesome.