Best Game in Town - Part Deux

[heavy]

Here's a kicker for you, MP. Go ahead and make that free buy bet on the four and ten and place that chip in the field. If the four or ten roll you win twice - in the field and on the buy bet.

It will be interesting to hear what anyone else has to say on strategies to attack this game as we approach the Roadrunner Craps Clinic in Albuquerque in June. I, for one, welcome fresh ideas.

[Mad Professor]

Double-dipping on the Buy-4 or Buy-10 in combination with the Field-bet certainly qualifies as a quinella in my book.

Though there’s probably a real possibility that some players may get giddy over the prospect of the house not having an edge on those three bets (and over-bet it when in fact they themselves have no discernable positive-edge either); there’s also the real possibility of under-betting it…or betting it too timidly in the early highest-survival part of the point-cycle, even when they do have a discernable in-casino positive-edge over those wagers.

I like the idea of starting with bet-values on the Buy-4 and Buy-10, so that its first paying-hit isn’t completely absorbed through pressing. So for example, a $5 Place-4 that generates a $9 payout which is then parlayed (along with an additional $1) in order to fund what probably should have been at least a $15 bet in the first place; effectively ‘gives up’ one paying-hit from your expected 4/10 hit-rate.

That is, if you usually produce an average of let's say, three paying-hits per hand on the Buy-4/10 combo; then using that first hit to ‘fund’ what should have been a properly (more fully) funded wager in the first place (given your per-hand production average)…and then using almost as much from your second hit to fund it even more; not only actually serves to reduce your overall net-profit rate on that wager, but it also unwittingly increases your hand-to-hand bankroll-volatilty on it too.

In other words, the higher the ratio between your press-value to what the paying-hit just paid; the lower your overall return-on-investment and the higher your bankroll-volatilty.


MP

[heavy]

What you have to remember is that ANY bet on the four or ten is a free buy (or lay) bet. So you can "buy" the four or ten for $10 each and pay no vig. You can also lay for $10 (on a $5 game) to win $5 and pay no vig.

If you adopt an "only press the winning bet" approach rather than pressing in pairs then it's easy to go from $15 to $25 while locking up a $5 profit on that number. At that point you essentially have a $25 "free bet" up there. Now how aggressive do you want to get?

[heavy]

Well, you can't tell from a single photo what most of the players are doing at this casino, Rick. But the truth is, not many players are flocking to this casino because it is such a well-kept secret. I can tell you from personal experience that the tables there do attract quite a bit of Field play - and a huge amount of prop play. And that's where the Albuquerque tables profit most, I suspect. Even though they pay an extra buck on most of the props compared to Vegas payouts. Now, you said:

There are some free buy bets on the tables in Vegas on the 4's and 10's, where you pay the Vig. After to win your bet.

Alas, that's one of those things we've mis-named, I guess. We often say "the first buy is free" on those tables, but they collect the vig after the win so it's not free. You just don't lose the extra buck by paying it up front in the event the shooter sevens out without your scoring a win on that number.

As for most craps players being underfunded - hard to argue with that one.

[London Shooter]

Still there according to their website but your fun will be curtailed as the free buy 4 & 10 is limited to $100

[London Shooter]

$1000 bankroll. 20 goes at $50 a time. Strap yourself in and enjoy that ride

[DarthNater]

I remember a seminar in Albuquerque, many years ago (like 2007?) where we hit all three places, Star, Route 66 & Sandia. I remember doing 4/10 combos with Roadrunner (R.I.P.) and Heavy all weekend.

Heavy - maybe we should have a Roadrunner Commemorative Tour and hit the Star again. I'm in - say when, D.N8r

[heavy]

I would enjoy that very much. There's actually a dealer school I can rent there. They've trained just about every dealer in the market. Good people and a nice facility.

Last time I was at the Star they'd taken two nice tables out and replaced them with one aircraft carrier that was awful. Route 66 was great, though. I've had "Scoblete played here" issues at Sandia in the past. Don't care for the dealer attitude - at least on the morning shift - but I'd play there again. Plus I love the food in Albuquerque. I have a "wild card" opening for a seminar next year and haven't finalized my decision on where I'll do it. Albuquerque certainly might be an option. But I'd have to have SUBSTANTIAL support from guys in outlying areas who'd fly in and attend the seminar because local support it on the light side, to put it mildly.

[220Inside]

I would add this to the list of sessions I'm considering for next year.