Doey Don't Variants

[London Shooter]

Well, you know this isn't going to be a winner either?

Sounds a lot more exciting than the previous strategy though.

[heavy]

For the benefit of those of you who are wondering WFT . . . here is a copy of Professor H's progression. You can disregard the dates. Didn't have the auto-date function turned off when the numbers were entered in the original spreadsheet. They should read 6/8, 5/9, and 4/10.

Frankly, I don't get this grail-quest obsession with the search for the perfect betting strategy. IT DOES NOT EXIST. You are pursuing an illusion. About the closest you'll come to it is SIA's One Hit - Can't Miss play.

I suppose I could put together a right-side system called the Unicorn Play and some players would jump all over it. Add to that the Old Troll play and you'd have the dark side version. The Doey-Don't? The Old Troll riding the Unicorn. I'll put that right up there with our Drop Dead Toss, the Drunken Master throw, the Frankie Stein toss (good for monster rolls) and, of course, the world famous Whirly Bird (off axis) toss.

I played a sessions this morning with another so-called DI. I don't know the guy but he's obviously had a class with someone. He was shooting from straight out. He had a $5 PL bet and $6 each on the six and eight. That was the extent of his betting. Never even took odds on his pass line bet. I know, I know. He's was probably just practicing, right? Bullshit.

He tossed several hands in the 20's but never made more than a few bucks. His hands always ended after he did something stupid (mostly switching sets in mid-hand, but occasionally just picking the dice up and flinging them down-table). I could spend 20 minutes with this guy and if he would LISTEN and DO what he was told he could develop into a profitable player. But the way he was playing - he is destined to fail. No, he's not going to lose much, but he is going to be a consistent loser. The problem? Few players pay are willing to give up their "comfort zone" habits and do what it takes to be a winner. The "greed factor" kicks in and the casino wins. It's really pretty sad.

Want to be a winner? Learn. . . and I mean REALLY learn how to influence the dice and shift the odds in your favor. Bet low vig bets. Use common sense moves to get more money on the table when certain numbers are hot. Turn your bets off when they're not. And most important (and the one most of you won't do) is to quit while you are ahead.

[Dylanfreake]

One low vig wager per shooter is all I can handle.

[flextimeLV]

Despite what I've said in a different thread tonight, I'm STILL going to run the numbers on the next suggestion provided. I'm also going to run the numbers on what some call the 'Boozer's Delight' method. It's fun looking at all the attack angles in this game. I've had nothing but success playing Professor H's odds progression. I mean literally every time. It's strong, I admit. No systems win in the long run, but hey, I'll go to battle with the Craps God using that strategy anytime. I also like Grafstein's pensioner and Mrs. Dice Doctor plays. They're both strong. I don't win every time, but my bankroll is heading the right direction. Will the corrective crash come before I die (currently 49)? Possibly, but I'm expecting to go out a winner, except for that YO thrown from the DP in my ultimate final toss.

P.S. You might have asked yourself why I ever quit the H odds progression. Because I read a lot about proper bankroll and decided that mine wasn't sufficient to play that method consistently, so I dialed down and adopted Grafstein's methods.

[gargoil]

I suppose I could put together a right-side system called the Unicorn Play and some players would jump all over it. Add to that the Old Troll play and you'd have the dark side version. The Doey-Don't? The Old Troll riding the Unicorn. I'll put that right up there with our Drop Dead Toss, the Drunken Master throw, the Frankie Stein toss (good for monster rolls) and, of course, the world famous Whirly Bird (off axis) toss.

Don't forget the "Twinkle toes", "Stinky skunk (this is an off ass shot)", "The burn (low bowling shot where your fingers scrape the felt giving you Indian burn)", pizza toss" and my favorite the "Hail Mary" perfected by a good catholic friend of mine who closes his eyes and shakes the dice while reciting a Hail Mary prayer.

[heavy]

I've had nothing but success playing Professor H's odds progression. I mean literally every time. It's strong, I admit. No systems win in the long run, but hey, I'll go to battle with the Craps God using that strategy anytime.

Well, you're flirting with talking out both sides of your mouth. Are you only playing this way on others or are you playing Professor H's strategy on yourself as well? If you shoot the dice do you shoot from the Don'ts? If you shoot from the Don'ts do you set for the sevens once the point is established? If so, do you vary the sevens set based on what the point is? Inquiring minds and all that.

As for no system winning in the long run - I'll agree that no system ALONE wins in the long run. However, there are MANY other factors - and I mean BEYOND dice influencing - that can turn your play positive. The math guys pooh pooh streaks and trends, but the fact is streaks and trends DOMINATE the game over the short run. If you capitalize on them consistently in the short run then the long run takes care of itself. I used to say "the secret to winning is to quit when you're ahead." It's still true. But to GET ahead you have to be able to capitalize on the trend. I know, I know. I've heard it all before. There are no trends at craps because every decision is an independent trial. The dice have no memory. You just happen to have a bunch of same-way decisions from time to time. So you bet the DP over and over and over when three or four shooters have back-to-back mini-monster hands and see what happens. I'll go with the flow and bet the right side on these guys. I KNOW who's going to win more. Reverse the roles. You bet the Pass Line and I'll bet the Don't Pass when we have three or four shooters have back to back mini-monster hands. Odds are I'll catch up with you because I'm going to transition to the right side instead of riding my Don't Pass horse into bankruptcy.

This morning I watched a "random" roller throw two hard eights back to back. I tossed out $4 on all the hards - a terrible bet - and he brought back a hard four (parlayed), a hard ten (parlayed) another hard eight (parlayed) and still ANOTHER hard eight (locked up $75 and pressed to $25). The streak/trend was in.

Yesterday I watched the dice go around the table twice where EVERY player went PSO. After a few of those you figure out that you can just bet the DP or wait until the point is established and Lay against it. When you stop winning that way the streak is over. Watch for the next one.

Bottom line - I don't give a rats ass about the so-called "long run." The long run is a mythical term casino actuaries use to ESTIMATE their edge over ALL the play of ALL the players for ALL time. I am none of those. I am ONE guy, running MY play, for a very SHORT hit-and-run session. Take care of the short run and your PERSONAL "long run" will take care of itself.

[flextimeLV]

When I played Professor H's odds progression, I passed the dice each time. Wouldn't touch them. Now that I'm playing one of Grafstein's methods, I choose to shoot from the Don't. Grafstein says to never shoot, but I like having fun with it. I start with a hardway three on top with five's facing me. I then 1/4 turn the left die towards 9 o'clock showing top 1 and 3, 5s facing. If I throw a 7/11, I pass the dice. If I get a point, I go sevens set depending on the point. If it's a 4/10, I go "4 half 10": 4 and 3 on top, 2 and 5 facing. If point is 5/9, I go "5 upside down 9": 5 and 2 on top, 1 and 6 facing. If point is 6/8, I go "6 half 8": 6 and 1 on top, 3 and 4 facing. If I make a point, I pass the dice.

I have fun trying to get the table to think I've got something going with the dice, that I have some 'control'. I love the feeling when I've got things working, even though it's just for a damn nickel. I REALLY like having some shooter knockoff my DC's, waiting out the shoot, getting the dice, and shutting it down within 3 rolls. It's a compliment when some players change sides to the DP just for my shoot. Afterwards driving home, do I BELIEVE I influenced the dice? Many times, yes.

Other sessions I can't get out of the batter's box and toss come out winners or bullfrog a point and it's one and done, pass the dice. Do I get upset at myself over it? HELL YES.

Is DI real? (shrug)