Progressive PL play

[Bankerdude80]

Grafstein recommends upping/pressing your PL bet after every successful point is made during a hand. I am curious to know if any have found success with his method of play? If I recall correctly, he recommends pressing 50% each time.

Example:

Player #1

PL Bet #1 $10
Point Number established is 10
3x PL odds bet
Point made, net profit= $70

PL Bet #2 $15
Point number established is 4
3x PL odds bet
Point made, net profit= $105

PL Bet #3 $20
Point number established is 6
5x PL odds bet
Seven out. Point not made, net loss =$120

Player #2

PL Bet #1 $10
Point Number established is 10
3x PL odds bet
Point made, net profit= $70

PL Bet #2 $10
Point number established is 4
3x PL odds bet
Point made, net profit= $70

PL Bet #3 $10
Point number established is 6
5x PL odds bet
Seven out. Point not made, net loss =$60


Player #1 Total profit= $55
Player #2 Total profit= $80


Doesn't the Grafstein type of play negate some of your profits? How many points need to be made until the Grafstein profits exceed flat betting?

[London Shooter]

Difficult to say for sure given you wouldn't know what numbers are hitting and therefore what the odds payments are in advance, but it looks like you need to be making 3 points at least to me. 2 points made with upping your bet each time is a good start, but lose the 3rd point and you are giving a lot of your profits back %age wise.

[heavy]

I addressed this on another thread but I'll toss it out again here. In Grafstein's heyday you had (for the most part) single and double odds games. In order to win more money on the Free Odds bet you HAD to progress your Pass Line bet on wins. Doing so allows you go get more action behind the line.

[flextimeLV]

I could post Grafstein's PL progression charts for single and double odds, if permissible. Want everything to be legal and within site rules.

[heavy]

Yes, the progression charts are fine. What you cannot do is cut and paste entire pages out of the Dice Doctor that include Grafstein's explanation of what to do with those charts. It is what it is. Copyright laws are like that.

[London Shooter]

Time for a trip to MS or the Cromwell. Be a while before you need to press your line bet there

[rhythm roller]

I know this is a thread about progressive PL but once I hit max odds on a bet it just seems much better to me to make a place bet on the number instead of increasing my base PL bet. Double dipping I think is the proper term for that. I think I like it better because it is a non contract bet and also easier to keep track in my mind of where I am in my progression. I suppose I give up something in the math but it seems less awkward a play for me.

[wiremonkey]

Ive been playing the Dice Doctors passline progression for a few months now, seems to be a pretty solid play for me. I have made some modifications to the play, 1. If the next shooter is a regular at my local casino that has shown a consistent ability to make their first point I will go up on them for $10 pass line $10 odds. If they make that first point then I will start the official dice doctor pass line progression play.2. After a successful $25 pass line with $50 odds win I will regress back to a $15 pass line with 30- $40 Odds behind as it seems most Shooters at my local casino rarely get past three points.3. If I lose four $10 pass line progression plays in quick succession then I will leave the table as it takes at least two hits or more to recover from one loss I feel the table is too cold at this time to do dice doctors play that's just the way it seems to go at my local casino. And for me at this time puts me just above what I'm comfortable with for a loss limit per session. I will admit that this last step has come back to bite me on several occasions it's amazing but if you just play the play and have the discipline but at some point you do catch a roll good enough to bring you back to even if not a profit, but like I said I'm also trying to play with a strict loss limit on any single session hand. 4. I set aside a small bankroll to bet on myself when it is my turn to shoot I treat myself the same as any shooter and must first qualify before I use the dice doctors play on my own hand. I also bet certain numbers that I seem too frequently roll when I shoot so therefore I have more money on the table on myself and I do any other shooter I play strictly the pass line progression on everyone else no additional place bets. I think starting a separate thread for the dice doctor would be a good thing to do as there are other dice doctor place I would like to start using would love to hear how other members use the dykes doctor plays and how they have modified them for their own use, or if they have made any modifications at all or does his strict play work well enough for them.

[220Inside]

That's some amazing self control Irish. I got a chuckle when I read wire's last post and the dykes doctor slip at the end.

[wiremonkey]

Sorry guys, writing this on my phone at 4 in the morning doesn't always work well. Irish, the odds at my joint are 3,4,5x's odds. Have been thinking about doing more of a progression on the odds first, rasing the passline only when i start to hit the ceiling on the odds bet. Again just recently read Sam's book and like some of his plays they just seem to have work for me under my circumstances, were I play.

[DarthNater]

When I'm shooting on the PL, I start with double odds on the first point; regress to single odds on the second point. My thinking is to stay ahead if don't make the second point. Then 2x on third, 3x on fourth, 4x on fifth point, etc.... Seems to work for me and minimizes the mental gyrations, D.N8r

[wiremonkey]

Thanks for that D, will give that a shot

[wiremonkey]

Yes Irish, it comes up with some good Sh.... lol

[Bankerdude80]

Time for a trip to MS or the Cromwell. Be a while before you need to press your line bet there

Yeah, since Cromwell went 100x odds I've found it difficult to get my go-to shooting position (SO) as their tables were busy each time I stopped by. The one other time, the table guests were being rude and surly with the table crew. I left before even tossing a hand. It'd be good to play a 100x table for a short time to take advantage of those odds.

[DarthNater]

Thanks Irish. My focus has evolved to being a more aggressive presser of the box numbers that repeat, which continues to challenge me so I've simplified the PL for the present so I can focus on that place bets. While I might never see an $18 eight pressed up to $1800 any time soon again; watching it happen vs reading the progression has put it into an interesting perspective.

Haven't gotten past 4x at the Cromwell....yet, ciao, D.N8r

[memo]

FYI...
For those that are interested in how we are rating while playing...
I don't understand it, don't agree with it, and I only know it because I got it from a good source (Host)...

Since the Cromwell went to 100x odds, you rating will be lower (significantly) than playing at other Harrahs properties....No matter how you bet. Odds, place, come makes no difference. It all has to do with how they view the over all probable return from the table.

So, all other things being equal, if you played at Ballys, Flamingo, whatever....Same crew, same TGS (rating you), same bets, same outcomes, just different casino, your overall rating would be significantly lower (read: tier points)

The way it was put to me...
By all means, if you like the tables, like the crews, like the environment....Play there...
But don't expect your normal ratings.
Mind you, I do not mean asking the TGS what your average bet and time was..No difference there. Same friendly faces, same eyes observing.
The change happens when they input it into the computer and it gets massaged by what ever equation they use to determine tier points. ie..When the bean counters become involved.

Kinda harkens back to rating bj players and inputing if they are skilled, moderate, or dummy player. In this case it is about the probability projected from the table itself.

Memo

[stratocasterman]

I thought most of Sam's "Right" PL betting was to increase the PL 50% on every win and only taking odds on the first hand. Any passes only resulted in a PL bet increase of 50% with no odds.

[heavy]

Memo - IF you are worried about bringing your ratings down playing at Cromwell - nobody forces you to hand in a players card. Just hand it in when you're playing at the other Caesar's properties.

Stratocasterman - Now you're going to force me to re-read The Dice Doctor. That's never a bad idea, by the way.

[memo]

Memo - IF you are worried about bringing your ratings down playing at Cromwell - nobody forces you to hand in a players card. Just hand it in when you're playing at the other Caesar's properties.

Hey Heavy,

Really, it gives me very little concern at all....
I believe that any insight into what the casinos are thinking and what they are doing is notable to anyone on this board.
It does have an effect. More important to some as to others....The reasons why are really not what this comment is about.

And actually, The overall ratings is not what what I meant...
My understanding is..
If one plays at...say, 165 across, for two hours at any property...Well, that is the same wherever you go..you are rated at 165 for two hours.
However, your tier credit would be different, depending on where it took place.

If that is important to you, well then pay attention. If not, well it is just a bit more background chatter that one can dismiss, or not.

I for one, tend to suck up any information about anything that is taking place at any property so that I can be more prepared for anything that may develop. This also helps me develop guide lines on where I want to play at any given time.....I am always in flux. It is part of what I enjoy.

Memo

[cubfan2121]

As they say hind sight is always 20/20, I caught myself having a mental lapse today at my local and now im thinking i probably cheated myself out of a winning session.
Scenario: Qualified shooter then made $10 pl bet w/odds and won
2nd bet: $15 pl then natural 7
continuation bet: $25 pl with horn high ace deuce (just my spin on it) result: natural 11
This is where i faltered, should i have bet $50 on pl? I ended up repeated same bet $25 with horn high ace deuce.
2nd point made.
3rd bet: im still betting $25 on pl since ive never been in this position before. result natural
continuation bet: $25 pl and horn high a2 result: another 11
I admit i was gun shy at this point and just happy i had gotten myself out a hole and at this point almost even but im thinking if this bet should have been up to $100

Since this was uncharted territory for and feel im still learning by doing, Ive noticed im having a hard time making significant progress and not maximizing my profits. A few times today i won with 2-3 numbers off a shooter but when i counted my chips, I barely won any money. I should be making more than $10 off 2 winning numbers. Ive noticed that by the time ive set everything up where i have my pl with 1x odds and the $12 six and eight, the 7 comes immediately afterward leaving my profits on the board