Questions Regarding Wrong Way / Dark Side Betting

[Seattlerick]

Swim the Pacific Northwest you reduce your don't pass bet to table minimum and still shoot the dice.also you can reduce your dop wager, but you cannot increase it after the point is set.taking odds on the don't pass is increasing your volotility, as you must win two bets , to make up for each one you lose, due to the negative leverage. Better I think to increase your don't pass or don't come bet and hedge the 7/11, if you are afraid of them on the first roll

[$5Bill]

#1. On the Right Side with a table min bet ( $10 ) I can wager $30 / $40 / $50 to win $60 on my Odds portion -
Therefore I can LAY $60 against the established to win $30 / $40 / $50 ?
I assume that THIS is CORRECT !

Yes $nakeeye$ you are correct. On a lay bet of $60 on the 4/10 pays = $30. $60 lay on the 5/9 pays = $40 and a $60 lay on the 6/8 pays = $50.

#2. On a DC wager one can request " No Action " on the traveled bet when it lands on a box number - usually the 6 and / or the 8 –

Never, Never request "No Action” on a Don't Bet that travels to a point number. You can always place that bet and either break even or guaranteed a profit. I am assuming you are talking about when a Don't Come bet travels to the 6 or 8. When this happens, just place your $10 Don't Come bet for $10. You will either break even or win $1. You cannot lose at this point. Sometimes when my Don’t Pass bet goes to the 6/8, I will put another $10 in the Don’t Come and make that my point when it goes to an outside number. Then I will place my Don’t Pass bet for $10

AS the SHOOTER - IF MY DP wager is MORE THAN table MIN - can I reduce it to table min AFTER the Point is established ?

You can always remove or Reduce a Don’t bet but never do that. Instead, let’s say you bet $25 on the Don’t Pass Line and your point became a 6 or 8. Instead of removing it and giving up the Dice, place it for $24. Now you cannot lose no matter what happens. If the 7 comes, you make +$1 and if the point is rolled you make +$3.

Obviously to remove this bet would mean I would be required to relinquish the dice - which is the reason for this question !

Never, Never request "No Action” on a Don't bet.


$5Bill

[flextimeLV]

1. Yes
2. Since you can take down your DP after establishing a point, seems you can also reduce to table minimum, but never asked. You have the upper-hand once the DP gets established, regardless the point, so why take it down? Never seen the shooter start from the DP and then take it down after establishing a point and force a pass by rule, but that's what should happen, yes. Every shooter needs a line bet, PL or DP.
3. You cannot add to your DP after a point is established, but seems you should be able to reduce it to table minimum. You can sure take it completely down anytime, but why would you ever do that when you have the upper-hand.

The Patrick Doey-Don't will reduce comeout volatility at the expense of a vig on both bets versus one.

Heavy addressed the doey-don't in an article he posted:

You bet more with the Doey-Don't or the Patrick - and you lose more with it. My opinion? If you are afraid you are going to lose your Pass or Don't Pass bet on the Come Out then you probably shouldn't be playing at all. These strategies are nothing more than convoluted hedge systems. The problem with hedge systems is that once you start down that trail it's hard to get off it. Next think you'll be playing the Doey-Don't $150 with a $5 hedge bet on the twelve.

My advise? Take sufficient bankroll to the tables to withstand the ebb and flow of the game. Set win objectives and loss limits. If you want to stick with the lowest vig bets they stick with the Don't Pass and Don't Come with odds. If you don't lose on the Come Out roll the don't pass bet will usually win. And yes, I can already hear you thinking about hedging the Come Out with a $41 no 4, $31 no 9, or a $3 sevens hop.

[flextimeLV]

Good luck to you too, sir. I'm expecting a round of lectures on the Martingale (and fully warranted).

[heavy]

I'm willing to wager that it will cause drama.

Most likely instigated by someone like myself who will offer you a tip on how to play the Don'ts - then offer to "buy" that bet from you if you don't want it.

[DarthNater]

I'm with Irish & H, leave the don't out there, you dodged the 7/11, so if you have the guts for hanging in against that, you might as well hang in against the number - since you have the edge. Instead of thinking of taking it down, try thinking of betting another don't.....

D.N8r

[Dylanfreake]

The only time a Dark Side player has an advantage over the casino is after a DP wager makes it past the come out roll, even if the point is a six or eight. That is why loading up on odds after a point is established is a good play , as long as the players bankroll can handle it.

The only time a Right Side player has an advantage over the casino is when he makes a PL wager. After the point is established and the player takes odds , the casino holds the advantage.

My question is , "Why do so many craps players play the Right Side?". Especially when the casinos have the big advantage after a point is established and the Right Side player is loading up taking odds?

[Moe Bettor]

Many just have no knowledge of how to play the don'ts and some have arcane, and false beliefs that it brings bad "vibes" to play against the other players which, of course, is nonsense since you are all trying to make a buck off the casino.

[heavy]

I think many of the bad vibes right siders have regarding wrong way players stems from the fact that so many darksiders like to build a mountain of chips right in the shooter's landing zone. There's no reason to lay $200 in odds on the Don'ts using red and white chips.

[SHOOTITALL]

Myself, I believe it is because folks cannot stand to lay $20 and get back $10. They cannot stand to have a naked DP or DC without odds which causes a quandary for them. If one can play the dark without laying odds, you will have the best of it. But, they prefer to place $12 and get back $14. And lastly, I suspect their knowledge of the game could use some work.
edit: Whoooo Heavy, the submit button doesn't lag anymore? Magic?

[Dark Side]

My question is , "Why do so many craps players play the Right Side?". Especially when the casinos have the big advantage after a point is established and the Right Side player is loading up taking odds?

Right Side players get caught up in the action, the quick money moves by the dealers, stick and box. The carnival atmosphere play into the casinos hands.

The don't player is content to place their bet, sit back and wait for a result which in most cases is a positive results. It's a grind, no excitement, no carnival atmosphere, just bet and win. The dark side player is more inclined to walk when things are not going the way things they want.

Casinos would prefer Dark Side players stay away from the tables, they are more inclined to come out ahead.

DS

[crapsjourney]

I play dark and have seen videos online of don't players stacking up chips in the landing zone. WTF. They were not SO and had to reach across the table to place. I don't see the need for it. Even I would try to make a pass to get rid of their chips and wipe them out. The seven will come no need to piss players off. I've not seen this in live action yet. Then again I'm usually the only donts player.