Do you qualify a shooter ?

[Michael]

If so how ? Make a point,three inside numbers or just bet on everybody ?

[heavy]

When I'm playing lone wolf style I like to chart tables long enough to see every shooter at the table handle the dice once. If the shooter appears to be a dice influencer I'll bypass the come out and wait for one box number to be tossed, then I'll bet some minor action on the six and eight and see where it goes. If the shooter is clearly NOT a shooter (PSO's or PPSO) then odds are I'll bet the Don'ts against him. When unsure whether they're a shooter or not - I'll often wait to see if they can make a pass before risking any action. Of course, the better plan is to find an empty table where you'll be the only shooter you are concerned about.

[Lkwd]

2way10

Welcome to the Board.


Lkwd

[rocketman]

I have given a lot of thought to this lately and decided the table was probably more important than the shooters. Someone once wrote that their are good tables and bad table ... meaning an excess number of sevens were being thrown.( a bad table. yes you could play the donts might workout and might not) Another wrote something like this.. the world owes me some sevens. (was this you H) If you see 2or3 shooters tossing hands say 10 to 20 numbers around the table you might want to play the table regardless of the shooter. Just my opinion. I know the dice have no memory and the trend can change quickly. Once at the Eldo in Shreverport La I was at a table with six other shooters. the longest roll was four. Some PSO's and three and out throws. I just watched and tossed once (a three and out) After a few times around the table everyone left but me. What the heck I thought I would give it another try and lo and behold I had two tosses of 38 and 23. I then left the table. This doesnt happen that often but I do think once the sevens get out of balance ( more than you should expect that there is fertile ground and oppurtunity to make some mony. I am in no way an expert with the dice so again these thoughts are just my opinion

[heavy]

The problem - no matter what you base your tracking on - is that we're alwas looking backwards at the table history - there's no crystal ball we can look at to tell us the future as far as when the table is going to break out. I try to look at the tables both ways - from a total table perspective and individual shooters, but I tend to put more emphasis on the shooters because IMHO it lets you drill down and find a way to bet every shooter - either fromthe right side or the Don'ts. I recall walking into the Eldorado years ago and stepping up to the table only to find EVERY player at the table on the Don'ts. I just joined in and bet the Don'ts with the rest of them - until the dice came to me. Then I flipped to the right side and tossed a decent hand. After I sevend out everyone else tried to play the right side, thinking the table had turned. I, on the other hand, went right back to the Don'ts - and it was the right decision.

[Michael]

Heavy,
What triggers your right or don't play ?

[heavy]

Yeah, that's basically it. If I lose two consecutive right side bets I will seriously consider switching to the Don'ts. If I lose three consecutive bets I will seriously consider switching the car on and driving home.

[wild child]

.
At one time I choose to by pass the P/L on the COME OUT ROLL ,then as fast as PRONTO I LAY BET
the PASS LINE POINT ,paying the 5% Vigorous Commission ................
( in most joints,the LAY BETTOR must WAGER in amounts large enough to win $20 at least )
{ The 6/8 require $30 Lay plus $1.00 Vig to win $25 or 5% of whatever $$$$amount LAY Bet Wagered )
[ The 5/9 requires $30 Lay plus $1Vig to win $20 or 5% commission of whatever$$$LAY BET ]

My next 3 - 4 bets were D/C about 1/2 of LAY against the P/L with NO LAY

After the by then 4Th or 5Th ROLL , I TRANSITIONED to making COME BETS followed by serial COME BETS with single ODDS......... This either gained some + / - , WON BIG or INDICATED I needed take a break and study options which included returning,or a casino hop or calling it A DAY.........

With the above, some days MY BUY IN was THE WINDSHIELD while other days MY BUY IN was THE BUG............

W C

[Americraps]

Since the overwhelming majority of shots are random, I don't see that it matters to qualify a shooter or not. If I see someone that makes a lot of non random shots, then it is time to bet.

[wild child]

Americraps

Do you use some form of charting ?

How long would you chart / clock the table before entering the hand ?


W C

[Americraps]

Hi Wild Child- No I do not chart the table, but I pay close attention. If I see someone is attempting to control the dice, I watch a few tosses and make my decision on whether/how to bet on them. Admitedly not very scientific, but I know what kind of shot I'm looking for, and I know when I see it.If the guy is setting the 3v and I'm seeing a good toss with inside number results, then he's worthy.If I'm seeing a lot of ace dueces or elevens by that guy, he has a DP problem and I may back off. If I'm seeing aces, or midnights or hard 4s and 10s, then he's throwing one dice off axis and he's probably not going to be shooting a long hand. That's not to say I only bet on the best of the best. That's not the case at all, but I will be very conservative on the randies.

[heavy]

Thinking about the subject of this thread - do you qualify a shooter - can we turn that around? Do you ever DIS-qualify a shooter? Find a shooter who is so bad you swear that you'll never risk another dime on him?

[TwinStix]

Wow...see some familiar handles from over at crapsforum.com

Thats good to see.

Superstition alone....qualify shooter for my line bet only after he/she has established and hit a point. That doesn't stop me from making place bets with the shooter straight out of the gate.

[acpa]

Don't think I have disqualified a Randies.

I have even bet against a shooter who is on the don't, if I don't think he is a controller, if he passes myqualication test.

Noah

[heavy]

TwinStix - I think you will find the Internet Craps World to be a bit on the cozy side. Seems like everyone knows everyone - especially around here where so many of us get together for seminars and live play.

[dork]

I'll give a new RR a chance to hit some numbers at least once. On these new shooters, I'll use Heavy's Heat Seeker strategy, and I'll revolt against them and go "Don't" on their next hand if they bomb out before the 4th roll. At the time/day I play, there are usually a regular buncha folks I'm familiar with, and I'll play'em according to my recollection.

It's very rare that I'll disqualify a shooter completely. Once in a while I'll find someone who's so ugly there's no predicting (and I'll stay off that kind of shooter), but most of the time there's at least the possibility of a 1-, 2-, 3- flat bet Don't, ( one $10 DC bet on a 6/8 "come out"; two $10 DC bets on a 9/5 "come out", and 3 $10 DC bets on a 4/10 "come out"--all betting ceases on a natural until the next shooter).When I say "come out" I mean the roll right after the point is established--I don't bet DP; only the DC--it allows me to avoid the plague of repeated naturals--at least the dice move on if I get burned on seven with my first DC bet. Once in a great while, if I really get a bad vibe from a shooter, I'll stack up to 3x odds on a 5/9 flat bet, especially if I have both the 5 and 9 or either of the 5/9 and $10 flat bets on the 4 and 10.

If the table's in an ugly sevens trend, I'll forego the above betting system and use Heavy's 10, 20, 30, 50 Don't progression. It's safer, and I don't havta wait around for shooters to seven consecutively; I've seen a couple *really* ugly tables that allowed that play; most of the time though, the tables are too choppy to see the progression through and I can do better with Grafstein's 3- flat bet system against a shooter I've "charted".

[wild child]

The BIG UGLY TRUTH is:

While there may exist INDICATORS or SIGNS...........

Play craps long enough and you may very well hum your paraphrased version of
Bob Seger I Wanna Get Lost In Your Rock N' Roll

freely translated to : Give me the beat, boys, and free my soul I have lost in this rock and roll And need to drift away , Beginning to think that I'm wasting time and money............
or
Lynyrd Skynyrd's lyrics :Gimme three steps, gimme three steps, mister. Gimme three steps toward the door? Gimme ... And you'll never see me no more"

In some cases taking the time and effort to CHART may reward you with a strategy as effective as driving while only viewing into the rear view mirror. Other people snap off their perception and go into action in a " BLINK "........There are proponents and detractors aplenty of both scenarios and just about any other other which may float up in this diverse grouping of chance takers and adventurers.



Just me saying

W C

[amish dude]

Nice to see other DI-er's who like rock and Roll

[Iceman95]

I pay attention if the shooter is setting the dice and their toss is a lob. I consider them to be di compared to a shooter who just picks up the dice and literally throws the dice. I will be hesitant to bet with them compared to a shooter appears to be a di.

[Blackcloud]

UNHH!!Iceman, you should see how the Medcineman can set, pick, & toss mucho pronto