WOTCO or not?

[stratocasterman]

Thanks scout! Yes, low population tables give you a little breather in between tosses...

[Irukanji]

Thanks scout! Yes, low population tables give you a little breather in between tosses...

Stratman, how often do you come across low population tables in Manila?

[mssthis1]

The problem becomes no GWAG. You are such a favorite on the comeout roll to make money, yet the average punter is more concerned about having the least money on the line, to win. Then they make one of the worst bets ever, the world. Then the casino offers the short pay ats, insuring punters avoid the seven at all costs.

That's one place where my opinion and betting style has changed recently.

Used to be I would never make a pass line bet larger than the max odds I intended to take dictated. Now I bet more on the pass line, try to toss comeout naturals and I half press all pass line winners. I feel It's easier to toss a streak of 5 pass line winners than it is to toss a streak of say 5 6's or 8's.

After a point is set, I take odds as I normally would. It isn't unusual to have my flat bet larger than the odds after a string of pass line winners. All the local games are 10x odds.

If I'm using a hardway set, I keep it for comeouts. I toss higher and with more revs, trying to double pitch. If I don't succeed at tossing a seven I feel I'll set a number I can make more often since I didn't change sets.

[stratocasterman]

Thanks scout! Yes, low population tables give you a little breather in between tosses...

Stratman, how often do you come across low population tables in Manila?

Irukanji...My answers are based on times between 7AM to 10PM generally. I most frequent these casinos from 9AM to 2PM. That's my usual MO. Sometimes I earlybird and the later times, in the evening, are usually when my wife and I stop by for a drink or show. I rarely play in the evening but, I DO visit the tables to see what's up.

Resorts World Manila - Almost NEVER! Pretty sure the ONE table is open 24/7. It's a 200P ($4) table weekdays and goes to 300P ($6) Friday and Weekends. Sometimes, only half the table is open for an hour or so until they can grab a second dealer. Rare to find this table with less than 4 people. Generally friendly staff. Sometimes during the midweek daytime, they are training dealers which is a royal pain in the a$$!

Solaire - Quite frequently. The table is only open from 12PM until early morning (or whenever they decide to shut it down at night). It's a 300P ($6) all the time. Catch the table from 12 to 2 PM is best. You're likely to be the ONLY one there, sometimes 1 or 2 more but, that is rare. Lots of old timer Don't players when there IS someone playing at the table seriously. Otherwise, most people on the table just spend 10-15 minutes there in between card games as a novelty IMO.

Okada - Forget it...the place is a JOKE IMO! Trampoline tables with rails as high as your armpits. Tables always have 3-6 players for some strange reason.

City of Dreams - I refuse to even go there anymore! They now cater to the High Rollers only it seems to me. For the common player, it's as if you don't even exist. I have never even played on or tried their 500P ($10) table. The VERY few times I have been there, there was always several players there. I just DO NOT enjoy the vibe at that casino at all anymore and that's a shame. It's a nice place.

RWM and Solaire are VERY playable tables. RWM has a wee bit more give than Solaire's table, but IMO, they are both great tables to play on. Solaire has really low table rails which I like. I think any decent DI with a few years experience, traveling to different tables, should easily be able to adapt to either of these two tables quickly.

[Irukanji]

Strat, I think you should cut and paste your above post and put it up on the Casino Intel and Playing Conditions section of the forum. Lots of valuable info on Manila casinos. Thanks for the very detailed and informative post.

[Tgold]

Hi Stratocasterman. Great thread/good posts everyone.

re: wotco. It depends. I like to wotco with 4/10. I typically only wager two numbers and the 4/10 are the only numbers I wager on wotco at beginning of hand, and only when I'm shooting. If the come out is after a point then I may or may not. Depends on several variables: How numbers are cycling, If I am pressed significantly higher than my base wager, and where I am in the cycle(e.g., are we approaching 6-8 tosses from previous 7, would my two numbers wotco also be the two most dominant thus far ...etc.)

Stratocasterman--Good summary of Manilla cas in your post above: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:58 pm.

I enjoy many of your posts comparing Manilla cas with cas in USA.
You might consider doing a thread : Top Ten Bac/Craps Differences in your cas vs cas in US (e,g, min/max table limits, vig%, staff, other players wagering style, differences in rules, tournaments, et al ...etc.). Positive and negative . Thanks StratoMan for all your posts.



All the best,

Tgold

[stratocasterman]

Thanks StratoMan for all your posts.



All the best,

Tgold

Your welcome Tgold and thanks too for your posts, especially in the "A Negative Progression Baccarat Study/Strategy". They are always relevant and spot on! Gold you might say...

[Bentonck]

Since Heavy brought it up on the trip report and I ended up rereading this thread I'm going to go ahead and post my thoughts:

1) As Irish points out, correctly, the come out roll for a DI has the same chance (exactly) as every other roll. If I'm going to play a regression might as well start from the beginning. I go in prepared to play WOTCO (me only, or trusted associates)
2) As is also pointed out, after a point is made, I call my place bets off (If your WOTCO on the first come out they are going to ask after) ... and the reason is that once I've got a place bet or two pushed up there and I've made a pass, I don't want to lose on a "friendly" 7. The math doesn't matter here, it's mental as Irish pointed out (and I caught that he worked a non-mathematical point of view into a post, WOW!). I have played both ways, including just 6&8 working instead of Inside, but at the end of the day if you have built up your 6 or 8 to $42 or $90 and it get's wiped out on a come out roll the wind is gone from your sails, I guarantee it. You will relish the hit you got a lot less than the eventual wipe-out where all your bets are down and you have to reach into the rack mid-roll.

The whole idea of my regression play is to get one hit and be playing with house money going forward so I can press with no reservations. If I wipe myself out mid-hand after getting some presses in, the magic is gone.

That's how I play it...

[DarthNater]

Irish is right about the mental side of WOTCO. I don't WOTCO.

For several reasons: 1) If I'm shooting for the Fire Bet, I want to switch sets and snipe a number - for me switching sets in mid hand is always risky - so I minimize the risk; 2) Since I play a lot of Heavy Heatseeker, sometimes I have come bets up, so no WOTCO for me; 3) If there's no come bets or bonus bets (of mine) in play, then I'd rather do GWTG and shoot for a 2/12 on the comeout; 4) I think the discussion to turn them on creeps into my brain and now we're dealing with that mental thing again; 5) I also think the discussion to work them (as its a departure from the norm) draws a lot of attention from the box - to the point where if I hit a number - the heat amps up fast as its like spitting in their eye (Deadcat used to get hammered with heat for hitting a WOTCO number; 6) sometimes I just want to treat that comeout toss as a free throw and tune my toss.

Those above are all for betting PL, but I guess it applies to the darkside too, D.N8r

[House of Orange]

Somewhere on this board Heavy started a thread on why we lose. Probably missed this one: we give up a roll, 2-1 favorite to win because I need to practice my toss.

[DarthNater]

Somewhere on this board Heavy started a thread on why we lose. Probably missed this one: we give up a roll, 2-1 favorite to win because I need to practice my toss.

LOL, yeah, you're right; but sometimes I find it handy, especially if I see something I want to correct, N8