What's your favorite money management move?

[heavy]

Let's help the new guys out by sharing some of our favorite money management moves. What do you do to guarantee a win or minimize a potential loss during a craps hand? I like a $24 six and eight,one hit and regress to $12 each, then press and take to the moon. Thoughts?

[r_ventura_23]

Big JP guy here and I use regression on every type of gambling....except craps. The reason? A combination of a few things. On outside bets on Roulette for example(which I will only play in AC where half your money is returned on a 0 or 00), if the minimum is $10, you can start with $12, $15 or $20 etc. In craps if the minimum is $10, and you want the $6 and $8, you have to lay out at least $36. of course the odds of hitting a 6 or an 8 before a 7 are better then red over black, for example.

Secondly, I am willing to forgo the small profit I would make with regression, if I only get one hit on the 6 or 8, and accept the small loss($12 6 and $8 is a $10 loss with only one hit), when coupled with the smaller loss on a PSO.

So my favorite money management, in craps is the power press from $18 to $42....and collect on the next hit.

[SHOOTITALL]

Mine is pretty simple: keep the greed factor in check. Press with won money but cover the nut or most of it first.

[skasower]

I agree with Shootitall that greed factor sometimes gets the best of us. When that happens we usually give back our gains...not advisable. How many times have you said "man I wish I pressed more aggressively" when the shooter kept hitting numbers? Pretty much all of us feel that. But those who pulled back after making some profit are beating the casino...period.

I have another perspective to add here. And that is when we are NOT covering the nut or most of it. This happens sometimes. At that time, when I am down to half my buy in and I have never been above water, I color in and go grab an adult beverage and call it a "break."

The dream is consistent DI capability. Reality is it ain't always so.

skasower...

[House of Orange]

$30 5&9. One hits drop $11 tell dealer to reduce to $20@. Get three green chips change!

[220Inside]

$30 5&9. One hits drop $11 tell dealer to reduce to $20@. Get three green chips change!

That's a Biloxi only move, right? You're sitting at a profit of $4 after the regression if my math is correct.

The same move outside of Biloxi would be to drop $13 for 3 greens in return. Lock up a $2 profit.

[220Inside]

I like $30 6 & 8. First hit regress to $18 each, leaving $1 in exposure.

Though lately, I've been toying with unbalanced regressions on myself and select known shooters, with an extra unit on the number that hit. So $30 6 & 8 still. First hit, regress to $24 on the number that hit and $18 on the sister number, leaving $7 in exposure.

[220Inside]

Also toying with unbalanced regression on 4/10, when I'm betting even numbers on myself or other known shooters.

Buy 4/10 for $20 each. First hit, hit number goes to $30, sister number to $15, leaving $5 in exposure. I could just take the hit number to $25 instead of $30, making myself whole. Whichever way I go with it, the next hit on that dominant number goes to $50.

[Big O]

22inside wrote,

Though lately, I've been toying with unbalanced regressions on myself and select known shooters, with an extra unit on the number that hit. So $30 6 & 8 still. First hit, regress to $24 on the number that hit and $18 on the sister number, leaving $7 in exposure.

I like this move, if i remember right it is the one the dealer had trouble with. I liked the 4/10 play you mentioned as well. I am trying to be a sponge to learn how to win at this game.

[220Inside]

22inside wrote,

Though lately, I've been toying with unbalanced regressions on myself and select known shooters, with an extra unit on the number that hit. So $30 6 & 8 still. First hit, regress to $24 on the number that hit and $18 on the sister number, leaving $7 in exposure.

I like this move, if i remember right it is the one the dealer had trouble with. I liked the 4/10 play you mentioned as well. I am trying to be a sponge to learn how to win at this game.

Yes, this was the one I got into an argument with the dealer, box and pit boss about over at the Golden Nugget. They had no idea how to do this and showed a complete lack of basic math skills. If I remember it correctly, I placed $100 action, $30 6/8 and $20 4/10. The next toss was a 6. I asked for the 6 to regress to $24 and the 8 down to $18. Dealer hands me $8. Now, not withstanding the fact that he didn't pay me the $35 for the hit on the 6, I tell him that he shorted me $10 on the regressions, I should be getting a total of $53 back. Deer in the headlights look ensues. I try explaining each move to him...1 unit regression on the 6, plus 2 units on the 8 = $18 plus the $35 for the win on the 6 = $53. He's not buying it. I leave the money on the table and wait for him to finish paying the rest of the bets, then we come back to it. Both the box and the pit start off by trying to tell me that a regression to $24 from a $30 6 is $1 back to me. I'm like, no, that $6. They insist it's $1. I finally go how the hell is $30 - $24 = $1? They never did see the light in all of this and the pit just relented after a minute and said, just pay the guy.

After the dealer returned from his break, he initiated a discussion about it. He said he walked through it on his break and said I was right and apologized for the mistake. I think all the tipping that was going on helped too. The crew was not prepared at all for the action we brought to the table and guys that knew how to bet. I think the friend of ours that bought in for $15k and was betting really heavy had them totally out of their element. The dealers were flustered the entire time we were there.

[London Shooter]

I think this raises a very good point about regression moves especially = always know what you are going to get given back to you as often there will be mistakes. If you sense a crew are a little inexperienced, then anything other than basic moves may cause too much tension in the air and that never seems to be a good thing at the craps table.

Often a lot of my moves are misconstrued, even fairly basic ones like dropping $3 to take an $18 six up to $42 with a break in dealer at Bally's which caused way too much fuss than it should have done.

Mostly a lot of it comes down to my Alabama accent

[220Inside]

Yeah that $18 to $42 move gets them pretty much every time.

They also get confused when I go from $24 to $42 on a 6 or 8 and ask for 2 reds in change. When the dealer stumbles through it, the payout is almost always 1 red and 5 white. In most cases, once I explain the moves to them, pay yourself $30 for $2, cut out 2 reds for me and the rest is for you, they get it, but if they stumble the next time with it, I'll just let it go and let them stay in their comfort zone of handing me back the red and whites.

[Moe Bettor]

But I have to say in Biloxi I mostly didn't run into problems going $30 6 and 8 down to $12 and they were fine with dropping $3 up to $42. I think the Heavy contingent has gotten to some of these dealers over time. One woman dealer at Harrah's was in late training and was a little confused some of the time. The $24 to $42 is $52-$10. You could go to $48 and take two greens and take your other bet up to $30. At the $12 6 and 8 level, do most spread the payoff between 6 and 8 to take them up to $18? I'm torn with that as the shooter may have found a dominant number. Because you shoot a 6 doesn't mean you will ever shoot an 8 in the hand.

[pappyvanwinkle]

The better dealers will move on and come back to you if they don't understand the transaction. For example, the move from $18 to $42, usually the dealer will take all your money on that number and just put it in front of the box for them to do. If their not there, they will just count out how much money is there when everyone else is paid and magically, it adds up to $42 and they put the bet back up. In the case of the regression, do it one step at a time for them, first pay the 6, then have them make the 6 $24, the 8 goes to $18 etc. The thing is, if their not getting what your saying, change what your saying, screaming at the dealer in a louder voice rarely helps. Remember we want to keep the game moving, so doing it one step at a time may seem remedial, but sometimes is faster than trying to teach basic math to them. Eventually the dealer will think about it and realize how they should've done it, and will know for the future. Unfortunately the first time always takes the longest.

Pappy

[220Inside]

The better dealers will move on and come back to you if they don't understand the transaction. For example, the move from $18 to $42, usually the dealer will take all your money on that number and just put it in front of the box for them to do. If their not there, they will just count out how much money is there when everyone else is paid and magically, it adds up to $42 and they put the bet back up. In the case of the regression, do it one step at a time for them, first pay the 6, then have them make the 6 $24, the 8 goes to $18 etc. The thing is, if their not getting what your saying, change what your saying, screaming at the dealer in a louder voice rarely helps. Remember we want to keep the game moving, so doing it one step at a time may seem remedial, but sometimes is faster than trying to teach basic math to them. Eventually the dealer will think about it and realize how they should've done it, and will know for the future. Unfortunately the first time always takes the longest.

Pappy

There was no screaming involved. That never gets you anywhere.

[220Inside]

But I have to say in Biloxi I mostly didn't run into problems going $30 6 and 8 down to $12 and they were fine with dropping $3 up to $42. I think the Heavy contingent has gotten to some of these dealers over time. One woman dealer at Harrah's was in late training and was a little confused some of the time. The $24 to $42 is $52-$10. You could go to $48 and take two greens and take your other bet up to $30. At the $12 6 and 8 level, do most spread the payoff between 6 and 8 to take them up to $18? I'm torn with that as the shooter may have found a dominant number. Because you shoot a 6 doesn't mean you will ever shoot an 8 in the hand.

I rarely press both, preferring to let a number earn its way to be pressed.

The only exception to this for me is when I start out with a single place bet on 6 or 8 on a randy. First hit, I rack the win to recoup my outlay. Next hit, place the sister number. Next hit take both up a unit.

On randies that I start out with place bets on the 6 and 8, I'll collect the first two hits, regardless of which numbers hit to recoup my initial outlay. Then on the next hit, I take both up a unit.

In both scenarios, what I do with the next hit once both 6 and 8 are at $18, depends on how the hand is developing. If the shooter is tossing some other number(s) with some frequency, I'll use the $21 payout on the $18 6 or 8 to do $10 place bets on whichever of the outside numbers are showing up for the hand, racking the extra $1. If the hand is being dominated by 6's and 8's to that point, I'll just press up the number that hit and rack the rest.

[Moe Bettor]

I am with you on the randies. Nobody gets in trouble with same bet, same bet, same bet. And I start out on them with $12 6 and 8. Have also gone
$10 5 and 9 instead. Less footprint. Get yr. $14 and move them if you want. That's what great about place bets. No contract.

[pappyvanwinkle]

There was no screaming involved. That never gets you anywhere.

Sorry, my bust, didn't mean to say you screamed at dealers, just generalizing. I'm sure we've all seen enough players continually raise their voice to dealers when trying to get the dealers to do something. I could never be a dealer, all the crap they have to put up with.

[memo]

Pappy and I were playing at the tables quite a bit at about the time Mad Professor introduced the 204 bet. Not that it was new. All the moves were discovered well before that time (of course), however it was a combination rarely used. When done properly, it is a thing of beauty. Most dealers really like it once they catch on to what you are trying to accomplish.

The problem, and I believe this is what Pappy is alluding to, is that at first, it takes a bit of thinking out of the box. We are talking about people that are used to doing doing simple, redundant, calculations over and over, that is for the most part following very predictable patterns.

I do not use the 204 much these days for that reason. It is a game stopper/interrupter/confuser/frustrater...Read: EDE
Ask me how I know..

I do, however continue to use the presses and permutations constantly while betting, just not all at once.
Pappy mentioned rephrasing it...I might add. Make it a bit simpler. Too many steps for one pay out. What is crystal clear and logical to you is a bit of a reach in a fast moving game.

The dealer did appreciate it after the dust settled and he had a break to think it over.

Memo

[DarthNater]

But I have to say in Biloxi I mostly didn't run into problems going $30 6 and 8 down to $12 and they were fine with dropping $3 up to $42. I think the Heavy contingent has gotten to some of these dealers over time. One woman dealer at Harrah's was in late training and was a little confused some of the time. The $24 to $42 is $52-$10. You could go to $48 and take two greens and take your other bet up to $30. At the $12 6 and 8 level, do most spread the payoff between 6 and 8 to take them up to $18? I'm torn with that as the shooter may have found a dominant number. Because you shoot a 6 doesn't mean you will ever shoot an 8 in the hand.

I rarely press both, preferring to let a number earn its way to be pressed.

The only exception to this for me is when I start out with a single place bet on 6 or 8 on a randy. First hit, I rack the win to recoup my outlay. Next hit, place the sister number. Next hit take both up a unit.

On randies that I start out with place bets on the 6 and 8, I'll collect the first two hits, regardless of which numbers hit to recoup my initial outlay. Then on the next hit, I take both up a unit.

In both scenarios, what I do with the next hit once both 6 and 8 are at $18, depends on how the hand is developing. If the shooter is tossing some other number(s) with some frequency, I'll use the $21 payout on the $18 6 or 8 to do $10 place bets on whichever of the outside numbers are showing up for the hand, racking the extra $1. If the hand is being dominated by 6's and 8's to that point, I'll just press up the number that hit and rack the rest.

22Inside,
That's a really solid approach, I like covering my outlay first on those randies too.

I will spread to the 5 & 9 as well, provided I've seen a 5 or 9, by when I am spread-ready. Yeah, Spread-ready - there's a new "word" for some of us. Also, if the I think the 4 & 10 are looking better than going up on the 5 & 9, then I might try the 4 & 10 first.

Regardless of which pair I spread to, I also place a Come Bet. I kinda look at it as insurance and think of it as a free bet in that regard (that's just me, maybe). It gives me a lot of options {especially if its a unit bigger] and can be fun if it travels to an already placed number. Nothing frosts me more than making the two spread bets and immediately seeing a seven, so the come bet softens that whack.

D.N8r