Where's the Dark Side Love? *** Part II ***

Post by **DarthNater** » Mon May 06, 2019 8:20 pm

Greetings everyone,

Over two years ago I started the original topic of "Where's the Dark Side Love? " & thought I'd BUMP it. I was thinking this way all week & then tonight read Heavy's detailed announcement of this fall's Darksiders Ball in Las Vegas, but as happens, that original thread has taken on multiple lives & meanders, so instead it's time for a reboot the theme of my original thinking:

where are your favorite dark side venues......

Then I started with:
1) Charles Town, WVA - now replaced by MGM National Harbor - can't beat the 20 minute drive vs an hour & 20 min; and those tables adjacent to the cashier cage are bouncy and lots of people milling by makes it worse ( er.... better) ***2019 Update: now over 2.5 years since my last visit to Charleston - I hear it's still icy & meanwhile having good success at the Habor (see my other thread) - MGM-NH is having less bounce and many more transition opportunities, though there are two tables that always run silent, run deep =ly cold ****

2) Margarita-ville table at the Flamingo - coulda been first place if it didn't require a plane ticket for me.... scout the table or not - this baby ain't never been to the tropics ***2019 Update: I guess it went to the Keys as Flamingo yanked it in their last remodel - no sightings since - adios, amigo! ***

3) The land barge at the Golden Gate downtown - must be the reason the bridge is painted black in their logo...... *** 2019 Update: still going strong.....er - weak.... er cold ***

4) Dis-honorable mentions.... Fiesta - Henderson & The Borgota (still not enough of a reason for me to go to NJ) ***2019 Update: frankly I replaced the Fiesta with the 14 footer at GVR - better comps and crews at GVR - lots of randies, but also the seasoned local that has a hand for a nice transition play ***

Change is good, so here is my Spring 2019 Darkside favorites with a heavy lean on Vegas (my home away from home):

1) MGM-Nate-ional Harbor there's a couple of warm tables, several cool tables and a couple that hit Minus-100 on the Winterfell Scale - hint - look for a table with multiple guys on the DP w/ Odds.

2) The Golden Gate land barge definitely in the negatives and ya never have to worry about a closet DI dusting you

3) The Venetian - Yep it breaks into the top five this time around - nasty boxman in a casino that exudes negative energy with a penchant for one good transition play once around the table

4) The Palms - a choppy beast that hasn't survived the Station's remodeling, nor the invasion of the poolside 20-somethings very well. On my most recent recon with BankerDude we noted some improved play-ability - so this spot is definitely in play to be usurped.

5) My September Dark Side Ball Surprise - there are several finalists vying for this de-lofty honor ---- Let's get your nominations in - so we can debate the worst of the worsts and then go make $$$!

Also for all you other guys across the nation/world, that mentioned your favorite frosty spots in the original thread - do you stand by them still, or have you discovered another diamond, er, lump of coal, in the rough. Let us know, let's get the thread rocking!

Ciao, D.N8r

rhythm roller · Post by **rhythm roller** » Tue May 07, 2019 1:43 pm

Agree with the Palms but haven't been there since the remodel. Also, least expensive table (&10) open in the morning at Caesars. Just a trampoline! Random and reandom so someone might catch a good hand but I have never seen one. Come outs could be the problem for dark side play.

skasower · Post by **skasower** » Tue May 07, 2019 3:50 pm

Dear Darth, calendar conflict will keep me from the Ball this year. However, I humbly nominate Caesars Palace tables. The tables all seem a bit hard (read bouncy?), but most important are the legions of arrogant, money tossing Randies who seem to crowd the tables. This is a situation where the dark side can succeed in my opinion.

I agree with Rhythm Roller though, that come outs are the big dark side risk at Caesars Palace.

Will miss the fun this year,
skasower

Post by **DarthNater** » Tue May 07, 2019 10:15 pm

rhythm roller wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 1:43 pm Agree with the Palms but haven't been there since the remodel. Also, least expensive table (&10) open in the morning at Caesars. Just a trampoline! Random and random so someone might catch a good hand but I have never seen one. Come outs could be the problem for dark side play.

Heard some similar observations last month on my travels out there, will add your comments. Are there multiple big bouncers, or is it just one table gone bad?

skasower wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 3:50 pm Dear Darth, calendar conflict will keep me from the Ball this year. However, I humbly nominate Caesars Palace tables. The tables all seem a bit hard (read bouncy?), but most important are the legions of arrogant, money tossing Randies who seem to crowd the tables. This is a situation where the dark side can succeed in my opinion.

I agree with Rhythm Roller though, that come outs are the big dark side risk at Caesars Palace.

Will miss the fun this year,
skasower

Thanks for the Caesars info, big bounces and big a-holes - always a positive for the darkside. Will watch out for the Sheriff and the Deputy.

Sorry to hear you can't make the big Ball this fall, I'm pretty sure Heavy still has a few opening for the Vegas Beach Party next month - if that's a possibility. Otherwise see ya next year, cheers, D.N8r

rhythm roller · Post by **rhythm roller** » Wed May 08, 2019 11:14 am

DNater,

Well, tables change all of the time as you already know so eyes on at Caesars before play would be the final test. Table in front and inexpensive by house standards seemed to me to be a very calculated thing by Caesars management. Of course, people were still very willing to play so it works for them. Rest of tables at Caesars seemed to be much less bouncey to me. Don't go there very much though. Used to be a table in back I really liked but it was always the last to open. It used to be on my strip swing through list until payed parking. But that is a whole different subject and not for his post.

Golfer · Post by **Golfer** » Thu May 09, 2019 8:45 am

New Orleans. Drunk tourists. Darksider's Dream.

Bankerdude80 · Post by **Bankerdude80** » Wed May 15, 2019 6:00 pm

DarthNater wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:20 pm Margarita-ville table at the Flamingo - coulda been first place if it didn't require a plane ticket for me.... scout the table or not - this baby ain't never been to the tropics ***2019 Update: I guess it went to the Keys as Flamingo yanked it in their last remodel - no sightings since - adios, amigo! ***

I walked through Flamingo in May 2019 and yes, Margaritaville is gone....but the table is back! Near the double doors and bar. I haven't played on it so don't know its conditions. They rebranded Margaritaville into something else, not sure what.

pappyvanwinkle · Post by **pappyvanwinkle** » Wed May 15, 2019 6:26 pm

The table's at Borgata at still trampolines, definitely for darksiders.

I haven't been theses properties for a bit, but was wondering if anyone has updates for the tables at GVR, Red Rock and Wynn/Encore?

realtime · Post by **realtime** » Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 pm

So I'm confused.

The assertion in some posts in this thread is that if a table is deemed too "bouncy" for a controlled shooter to exert influence on the dice (throw becomes random), then playing the darkside is the way to play these tables. Well, if the right side game is random then the wrong side game is random as well. IMO the random game in the long run can't be beat from either side.

Where am I thinking wrong?

Post by **DarthNater** » Wed May 15, 2019 10:53 pm

realtime wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 pm So I'm confused.

The assertion in some posts in this thread is that if a table is deemed too "bouncy" for a controlled shooter to exert influence on the dice (throw becomes random), then playing the darkside is the way to play these tables. Well, if the right side game is random then the wrong side game is random as well. IMO the random game in the long run can't be beat from either side.

Where am I thinking wrong?

Realtime,
That's a good question. From my perspective, and a few others I think as well, a very bouncy table tends to insure randomness to an extent that the rhythm rollers can't maintain their repetitions and trend back toward totally random. It's random both ways, true; but for me I tend to think the randomness finds the statistical norms more often. This is short term playing, and looking for shorter rolls. Its my observation that more bouncy tables produce shorter hands especially if its not a skilled player, i.e you're more likely to get that dreaded bad bounce more often.

Conversely however on wildly bouncy tables a knowledgeable skilled player can still assert some influence, so a darksider must be wary and observant. For instance, I once made a five point fire bet at the old super bouncy Rampart main table. It took a bit of skill, and many lucky misses - but that time I prevailed to the chagrin of a black chip DP player.

It's still gambling and there is always a random factor, I think for the short terms chances can be better on a big bouncer, D.N8r

Post by **DarthNater** » Wed May 15, 2019 10:55 pm

Bankerdude80 wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 6:00 pm
I walked through Flamingo in May 2019 and yes, Margaritaville is gone....but the table is back! Near the double doors and bar. I haven't played on it so don't know its conditions. They rebranded Margaritaville into something else, not sure what.

Very cool, guess we'll have to go on a recon, thanks, BD

Post by **DarthNater** » Wed May 15, 2019 11:03 pm

pappyvanwinkle wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 6:26 pm The table's at Borgata at still trampolines, definitely for darksiders.

I haven't been theses properties for a bit, but was wondering if anyone has updates for the tables at GVR, Red Rock and Wynn/Encore?

GVR still has 4 tables, only one has the Fire Bet. The 14 footer still has more cold days than not, it seems. D.N8r

Post by **heavy** » Thu May 16, 2019 12:48 am

The 14 footer still has more cold days than not, it seems.

Unless Heavy is standing at it loading up on the Don'ts. Then some incontinent octogenarian gets the dice and goes on a sixty roll tear and beats me like a boarding house mattress.

London Shooter · Post by **London Shooter** » Thu May 16, 2019 1:36 am

Palms is consistently one of my best tables to play in Vegas. Suits my SO shot very well. I play either morning or afternoon. Seems to always be sparsely populated.

Post by **DarthNater** » Thu May 16, 2019 8:14 am

heavy wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 12:48 am
The 14 footer still has more cold days than not, it seems.
Unless Heavy is standing at it loading up on the Don'ts. Then some incontinent octogenarian gets the dice and goes on a sixty roll tear and beats me like a boarding house mattress.

LOL - yeah - I know that guy and his older sister, they play there a lot. I like the OHCM at GVR with a couple of modifications that usually involve betting a DC, when I see a 6 or 8, until I get an outside number that I can lay. That kinda sets me up for a possible transition. Philosophically there, I think the "one shooter per lap around the table lights it up" rule is my expectation. D.N8r

Moe Bettor · Post by **Moe Bettor** » Thu May 16, 2019 8:31 am

Bouncy table blues bet the 5 and 9, 4 and 10 it's cheaper than the 6 and 8. Haven't found any correlation between trampoline table and somebody not throwing a 40 roller. True that the DI probably goes out the window, but that still doesn't mean you won't throw a long hand so thinking that a bouncy table is a guarantee for darkside I think falls into the gambler's fallacy situation. Charting. Short term play and streaks in variance. See the chapter on walking up to a table and seeing what is happening.

Post by **DarthNater** » Thu May 16, 2019 3:11 pm

I can't disagree, too much short term variance. There are no guarantees, nor correlations. It's an observation. I've seen more disruptions due to dice bouncing off the bouncy tables more frequently, waiting for the dice to be put back into play for "same dice" calls, etc; which I include in energy draining events. While you can play thru all those things, many times you can not. D.N8r

Post by **DarthNater** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:12 am

Time to get us back on topic as we are 7 weeks + a craps from the DarkSider's Ball in Las Vegas, and we're still hunting for those icy tables in the desert!

We have a few nominees so far in no particular order:

- Table #1 at the Palms
- The 14 footer at GVR
- Reports of the new Park MGM being cold - ** Details please if someone has them **

And dishonorable mention to the Golden Gate and Venetian as noted earlier in this thread

So, don't be shy, where's those chilly Vegas tables?

D.N8r

Post by **220Inside** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:30 am

I wasn't a fan of the tables at Luxor when BD and I were making the rounds a few trips ago. From what I remember, they were pretty bouncy.

Moe Bettor · Post by **Moe Bettor** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:57 am

Seen too many random mega shooters on even the bouncing betty's kill it. It's bad variance yr. looking for, isn't it? The table really doesn't matter
that much does it? Just asking.

Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Where's the Dark Side Love? * Part II *

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